The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[TheMookieMonster]

I’ve had my fair share of hot takes today, but I don’t think it is unreasonable for fans to be very concerned and upset about a loss to a team in which you were 20 point favorites.

We’re not a bad team, and I’m not giving up on them by any means, but it is frustrating to see the exact same issues we faced last year still facing us this year. If the 3 doesn’t fall, this team is easily beatable. We have to be more diverse on offense than just a 3-ball team.

 

[omghulkhands]

If the 3 doesn’t fall, this team is easily beatable. We have to be more diverse on offense than just a 3-ball team.

FWIW I am not arguing. Just giving my perspective.

But if we are gonna commit to this spread the floor offense, then games like this are gonna happen and you gotta live with it.

I’d be worried about being results oriented.

Colorado, IMO, played the wrong defense for our offense, but it worked today because we simply missed open shots. They collapsed on all drives, brought help defense and left a lot of kick outs open, especially to our bigs.

If I were the coach, I wouldn’t start making wholesale changes to anything based on a bad shooting night where Simpson played the game of his life.

Could we have set better screens? Yes. Do we miss Chandler’s paint scoring? Yes. Does Vescovi’s shot look off? Yes.

But we’ll see how things go over next few weeks

 

[zjcvols]

I’ve had my fair share of hot takes today, but I don’t think it is unreasonable for fans to be very concerned and upset about a loss to a team in which you were 20 point favorites.

We’re not a bad team, and I’m not giving up on them by any means, but it is frustrating to see the exact same issues we faced last year still facing us this year. If the 3 doesn’t fall, this team is easily beatable. We have to be more diverse on offense than just a 3-ball team.

They don’t have anyone that create their own shot. Rick is gonna have to really work around that

 

[berryvol]

Think it was in here but someone earlier this week said their only worry with this team was peaking too soon. Guess we don’t have to worry about that anymore lol

 

[Lukusw]

FWIW I am not arguing. Just giving my perspective.

But if we are gonna commit to this spread the floor offense, then games like this are gonna happen and you gotta live with it.

I’d be worried about being results oriented.

Colorado, IMO, played the wrong defense for our offense, but it worked today because we simply missed open shots. They collapsed on all drives, brought help defense and left a lot of kick outs open, especially to our bigs.

If I were the coach, I wouldn’t start making wholesale changes to anything based on a bad shooting night where Simpson played the game of his life.

Could we have set better screens? Yes. Do we miss Chandler’s paint scoring? Yes. Does Vescovi’s shot look off? Yes.

But we’ll see how things go over next few weeks

So far 3 out of 4 halves are like this... and against meh defenses. I don't think we can write this off as "it's just going to happen a few times". The team is clearly better than they showed today, but everything has glaring holes. Poor overall and inside defense, poor shooting, no inside presence for 2 games against teams who are hardly strong inside, etc.

We are not as good a shooting team as we think we are, I don't know if our bigs are uncomfortable inside or if we have no offensive inside plan, ZZ is overthinking it at starting PG (I'd consider trying Key instead), we have lots of movement on offense but very few purposeful cuts, and for crying out loud we need to incorporate on-ball screens-- very few of our guys are capable of getting free 1-on-1. And if ORN is unable to play out of the post, I'd post JJJ or Key instead and look for play to the elbows.

There are lots of available adjustments. Lots of them. I trust Barnes will make them. This is hardly a dagger in the season ..
AND ... obviously we won't even be in the Tourney playing like this.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Tough loss today.

I think the lack of any sort of rhythm and then essentially playing bad defense is what made it tough. Uros going down and Phillips sitting in foul trouble just seemed to derail the team, ZZ rushed everything and Santi just shot badly.

In the game thread I pointed out how little experience this team actually has, we have only 3 players with over 1k minutes played coming into this season. Uros and ORN have effectively both played less minutes in their career than Santi played last season. I really wanna see Barnes let the young talent figure it out with more court minutes.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

My hyperbolic and emotional takes aside, ultimately I think this team will be okay if both the players and coaches learn the right lessons from this performance.

We are still a very talented and experienced roster, but there is so much room for growth. We’ll see how they respond on Wednesday against a good FGCU who beat a PAC-12 team to open their season. No game can be overlooked.

 

[Ryno14]

Surprised no one has mentioned Barnes’ postgame comment about ZZ playing out of control and that he will no longer be starting. Not often you see that from Rick

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Surprised no one has mentioned Barnes’ postgame comment about ZZ playing out of control and that he will no longer be starting. Not often you see that from Rick

It has been mentioned in the game thread.

 

[cncchris33]

Surprised no one has mentioned Barnes’ postgame comment about ZZ playing out of control and that he will no longer be starting. Not often you see that from Rick

I could only watch the game intermittently, today, due to other engagements, but Zeigler, while pretty awful wasn't as bad as Vescovi seemed to be. Again, that isn't something based on intensive viewing, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm shocked to only see SV with 4 TOs, twice as many as ZZ, because I guarantee I saw every one of them. Given their relative experience and ZZ's physical limitations, it seems like Santi had the worse day, to me. The stat sheet bears that out, as well, so I'm curious as to why Barnes singled out ZZ.

 

[SoilVol]

FWIW I am not arguing. Just giving my perspective.

But if we are gonna commit to this spread the floor offense, then games like this are gonna happen and you gotta live with it.

I’d be worried about being results oriented.

Colorado, IMO, played the wrong defense for our offense, but it worked today because we simply missed open shots. They collapsed on all drives, brought help defense and left a lot of kick outs open, especially to our bigs.

If I were the coach, I wouldn’t start making wholesale changes to anything based on a bad shooting night where Simpson played the game of his life.

Could we have set better screens? Yes. Do we miss Chandler’s paint scoring? Yes. Does Vescovi’s shot look off? Yes.

But we’ll see how things go over next few weeks

This is an unacceptable level of reason, logic, and fair perspective. You need to work on your overreactions.

 

[SoilVol]

Tough loss today.

I think the lack of any sort of rhythm and then essentially playing bad defense is what made it tough. Uros going down and Phillips sitting in foul trouble just seemed to derail the team, ZZ rushed everything and Santi just shot badly.

In the game thread I pointed out how little experience this team actually has, we have only 3 players with over 1k minutes played coming into this season. Uros and ORN have effectively both played less minutes in their career than Santi played last season. I really wanna see Barnes let the young talent figure it out with more court minutes.

Any word on Uros? Sorry if I missed it. Looked like a pretty severe sprain.

 

[Dallasbowlin]

In case you want to cleanse your pallet after today’s game.

 

[cardvolfan]

FWIW I am not arguing. Just giving my perspective.

But if we are gonna commit to this spread the floor offense, then games like this are gonna happen and you gotta live with it.

I’d be worried about being results oriented.

Colorado, IMO, played the wrong defense for our offense, but it worked today because we simply missed open shots. They collapsed on all drives, brought help defense and left a lot of kick outs open, especially to our bigs.

If I were the coach, I wouldn’t start making wholesale changes to anything based on a bad shooting night where Simpson played the game of his life.

Could we have set better screens? Yes. Do we miss Chandler’s paint scoring? Yes. Does Vescovi’s shot look off? Yes.

But we’ll see how things go over next few weeks

Don’t go bringing all this common sense into the forum. Yes, I expect no wholesale changes, but do expect the players to have a very tough practice week. Giving up 46 points in the 2nd half is all about defending. Then, Barnes will work on all the other pieces as well. A terrible shooting game appears to make us look horrible, but it’s not as bad as it looked or feels right now.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I could only watch the game intermittently, today, due to other engagements, but Zeigler, while pretty awful wasn't as bad as Vescovi seemed to be. Again, that isn't something based on intensive viewing, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm shocked to only see SV with 4 TOs, twice as many as ZZ, because I guarantee I saw every one of them. Given their relative experience and ZZ's physical limitations, it seems like Santi had the worse day, to me. The stat sheet bears that out, as well, so I'm curious as to why Barnes singled out ZZ.

It wasn't just turnovers that was ZZ's problems. He rushed into several shots 3's and at the rim. He didn't do a good job of controlling the pace and getting the offense into sets.

 

[walkenvol]

We need SV to shoot 40%+ from 3 and so far this year he’s been inaccurate from distance. His 3 year body of work says barring an injury he will likely come around but it’s hard to overcome one player missing 10+ three point shots. Key has been picking up the scoring slack but his shot was off also. We seem to shoot worst on the road in out of conference games for some reason?

 

[berryvol]

We need SV to shoot 40%+ from 3 and so far this year he’s been inaccurate from distance. His 3 year body of work says barring an injury he will likely come around but it’s hard to overcome one player missing 10+ three point shots. Key has been picking up the scoring slack but his shot was off also. We seem to shoot worst on the road in out of conference games for some reason?

Bridgestone is also a very deep arena behind the baskets - kinda like MSG - and lends itself to poor shooting and funky depth perception. That said, we have played there enough over the years that our team should be accustomed to this particular venue.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

One thing I found curious, first half Colorado had 13 fouls and the second half just 8. Now from what I saw they didn't play less physical at all. As a fan I just hate that inconsistency, if it's a foul in the first half just keep calling it as a foul who cares if the whole team fouls out. If you're not going to call it in the first half then don't start calling it in the second half either. There were a couple of attempts at the rim by Phillips to start the 2nd half where he continued to draw contact and get fouled and even though in 2 different trips and multiple attempts he drew only one foul.

Santi did have more TOs than ZZ but a few of his weren't his fault. I remember one in the second half where Key called for the ball at the 3-point line then made a cut soon as Santi made the pass. But I think since Santi had 5 steals and was far more active elsewhere he didn't get scorned quite as much as ZZ.

But when 5 of your 7 players that take shots are 25% or below you're not going to win many games. Just have to clear that game and focus on the next one.

Honestly my biggest complaint was Phillips only played 15 minutes and Aidoo just 8 and that's with Uros going down early. Olivier lead the team in rebounding but he went 1-8 and had 4 TOs, he needs to accept that he's not a guy that needs to be shooting 4 threes a game.

 

[johnfnkelly]

I could only watch the game intermittently, today, due to other engagements, but Zeigler, while pretty awful wasn't as bad as Vescovi seemed to be. Again, that isn't something based on intensive viewing, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm shocked to only see SV with 4 TOs, twice as many as ZZ, because I guarantee I saw every one of them. Given their relative experience and ZZ's physical limitations, it seems like Santi had the worse day, to me. The stat sheet bears that out, as well, so I'm curious as to why Barnes singled out ZZ.

It was probably the worst game i've seen from Santi since his freshman season. Terrible shot selection, terrible decision making, cold all night. More blame should be on Santi and Olivier than ZZ, imo.

 

[johnfnkelly]

I think we're going to shoot a bunch of teams out of the gym, but I worry about the games where the 3 ball isn't hitting or we run into another Michigan game scenario. Who's going to take charge and get us a bucket underneath?

I was hoping to see more of Phillips making plays with the ball.

Edwards looks like he's going to turn into a fine player in the next few years.

oof.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

After sleeping on it, I'm already kinda over it. It's a November loss so not a big deal, but I hope we look better against FGCU. If we struggle in that one my concern meter will tick up a bit, though still won't be the end of the season.

 

[cncchris33]

It wasn't just turnovers that was ZZ's problems. He rushed into several shots 3's and at the rim. He didn't do a good job of controlling the pace and getting the offense into sets.

Based on what I saw, I think the same criticism of rushed shots could be true of Santi, as well. Controlling the pace and getting the offense into their sets, that's on ZZ, and would require more viewing than I did to determine, so I'll defer on that note.

 

[cncchris33]

After sleeping on it, I'm already kinda over it. It's a November loss so not a big deal, but I hope we look better against FGCU. If we struggle in that one my concern meter will tick up a bit, though still won't be the end of the season.

That's where I'm at. I wasn't even concerned, yesterday. November games scheduled like this are supposed to be wins, but crushing our schedules in Nov and Dec the past few years hasn't meant much in March, good or bad, so I'm not sweating it. It's more disappointing to see us play so poorly than it is to see us lose, yesterday.

And I'm still going to say that the Gonzaga win was fool's gold for a majority of our fans. Yes, we whipped them, but it didn't count, and it only increased expectation to a ridiculous point. Just like I didn't overreact to that "win", I'm not going to overreact to this loss.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

That's where I'm at. I wasn't even concerned, yesterday. November games scheduled like this are supposed to be wins, but crushing our schedules in Nov and Dec the past few years hasn't meant much in March, good or bad, so I'm not sweating it. It's more disappointing to see us play so poorly than it is to see us lose, yesterday.

And I'm still going to say that the Gonzaga win was fool's gold for a majority of our fans. Yes, we whipped them, but it didn't count, and it only increased expectation to a ridiculous point. Just like I didn't overreact to that "win", I'm not going to overreact to this loss.

Reasonable take. I get emotional with big losses, so I feel better about things after sleeping on it. But, the biggest disappointment for me was just the comments by JJJ post game saying the team was overconfident and thought their exhibition wins meant they didn’t have to prepare.

It’s just a shocking admission for a veteran team, and I am disappointed to hear we even had to have a humbling experience. Way too many minutes played on this roster and too many veterans on this team to not be prepared. College basketball is the most balanced sport. The Grambling win over the Buffs should have put this team on high alert, not made them put their guard down.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

That's where I'm at. I wasn't even concerned, yesterday. November games scheduled like this are supposed to be wins, but crushing our schedules in Nov and Dec the past few years hasn't meant much in March, good or bad, so I'm not sweating it. It's more disappointing to see us play so poorly than it is to see us lose, yesterday.

And I'm still going to say that the Gonzaga win was fool's gold for a majority of our fans. Yes, we whipped them, but it didn't count, and it only increased expectation to a ridiculous point. Just like I didn't overreact to that "win", I'm not going to overreact to this loss.

It's also hard to put yourself back in the mindset of "this is a March sport" in November; even though in March we always say we need to remember how worthless November and December can be.

I looked back at Auburn FF season from 4 years ago and noticed in a December stretch they went to OT to beat a UAB team that lost in the first round of the CBI, lost at NC State who ended up in the NIT, and eeked out a win over Murray St.; while Murray did make the NCAAT winning the OVC....still an OVC team at home. And that Auburn team went 11-7 in the SEC and at the end of February was 7-7.

That Auburn team turned it on at the right time and went on a tear where the shots were falling and they peaked the right time. So I guess the moral is, and especially speaking to myself is to remember November might not mean a freakin' thing.