The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

#17,430
#17,430
KJH is winning almost almost 70% as the LV head coach after only winning around 60% at her previous schools. It won’t be easy to make a change.

BUT, Holly won 72% and was blown out. Who knows what’s going to happen? At this point Danny can really just let the season play out while making his list.
 
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#17,432
#17,432
turbovol said:
I heard Barnes say in his media meeting today--or yesterday---that somebody had compiled a list of the most defensively efficient players in collegiate basketball since, maybe 2009 (Barnes wasn't exactly sure, saying '08/09/10) and Mashack, I think he said, was No. 4. He's 6'4" and a super-athletic guy who plays made defense and whose offensive skills are improving. He's going to be important for this team this season--and I predict his role will grow as the season progresses, perhaps at the expense of Ziggy. Ziggy is also a very good defender--but he's not 6'4.
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Agree JM is going to be a key piece for this team to have an extraordinary season and he should be a legit 6th man contender. Having said that, as good as he is defensively, he struggles a bit to stay in front of elite PG's (unlike ZZ) which is no knock on JM just a reality. He may platoon at PG but he will not take minutes away from ZZ.
 
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#17,434
#17,434
I hate to even draw attention to this, but some of you calling for Kellie's head may want to review her winning percentage and postseason record, and then perhaps reassess your stance on her and/or Rick Barnes.

Looking at their individual records (both overall and in conference) and postseason success/failures, it's tough to go to bat for one of them and demand better, or else, from the other.
 
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#17,435
#17,435
cncchris33 said:
I hate to even draw attention to this, but some of you calling for Kellie's head may want to review her winning percentage and postseason record, and then perhaps reassess your stance on her and/or Rick Barnes.

Looking at their individual records (both overall and in conference) and postseason success/failures, it's tough to go to bat for one of them and demand better, or else, from the other.
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Its a good point but I don't think you can really compare the two given the history of the men's and women's programs. I think its fair to have higher expectations for the women's program considering the history and resources we have compared to other women's programs. There are fewer women's programs that really try to compete for titles in basketball or put many resources compared to the men. JMO
 
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#17,437
#17,437
LeannaVol said:
Its a good point but I don't think you can really compare the two given the history of the men's and women's programs. I think its fair to have higher expectations for the women's program considering the history and resources we have compared to other women's programs. There are fewer women's programs that really try to compete for titles in basketball or put many resources compared to the men. JMO
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Exactly this. Plus Harper started in a much better spot. And it’s a lot easier to make the second weekend as a higher seeded team in WCBB bc you play the first two at home
 
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#17,438
#17,438
cncchris33 said:
I hate to even draw attention to this, but some of you calling for Kellie's head may want to review her winning percentage and postseason record, and then perhaps reassess your stance on her and/or Rick Barnes.

Looking at their individual records (both overall and in conference) and postseason success/failures, it's tough to go to bat for one of them and demand better, or else, from the other.
Click to expand...

At least Barnes has a couple SEC titles.

I'm not upset though at Kellie, going to FSU and beating them wasn't going to be an easy task. They shot almost 60% from 3PT, hard to beat a team that hot from deep.
 
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#17,439
#17,439
ColinS said:
How did you make it this long?
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I generally favor continuity. I’m slow to call for switch a QB or firing a coach. But the coaching last night was rough. FS is bombing threes on us all night, so we go zone in the last minute when we’re up 3? Ridiculous. Then we leave a timeout in our pocket and our last possession is just “Make something happen Rickea”. I also think our team just generally looks less athletic than every other team outside of RJ and maybe Spear (it’s early)
 
#17,440
#17,440
MoCo_Vol said:
At least Barnes has a couple SEC titles.

I'm not upset though at Kellie, going to FSU and beating them wasn't going to be an easy task. They shot almost 60% from 3PT, hard to beat a team that hot from deep.
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I agree in a vacuum, not a terrible loss. But the end of game coaching was terrible and typical of her
 
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#17,441
#17,441
LeannaVol said:
Its a good point but I don't think you can really compare the two given the history of the men's and women's programs. I think its fair to have higher expectations for the women's program considering the history and resources we have compared to other women's programs. There are fewer women's programs that really try to compete for titles in basketball or put many resources compared to the men. JMO
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I think more than half of the SEC puts in an effort to be competitive, though, as evidenced by 5 teams in the top-25, the past two national titles and three of the last six winners.

I'm also afraid our history is fading. We haven't seen a Final Four since 2008. Today's high school seniors were 2-3 years old, then, so I'm not sure how much it still works in our favor.

I'm not saying we shouldn't expect t excellence from our women's basketball program, but I think it's a bit of a double-standard to praise and defend Barnes for nearly identical production, and want Harper fired for it. I don't think, in 2023, that the versions of the game, obstacles, etc, are so different that you can carry such polarizing opinions of the two coaches. 20 years ago, I'd probably be more inclined to agree, but women's basketball has become much more competitive in that time. It isn't where the men's game is from that perspective, and probably never will be, but it is no longer just Tennessee, UCONN, LA Tech, Old Dominion, Texas and Stanford, anymore. It's much more competitive and parity abounds in the sport, now.
 
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#17,442
#17,442
omghulkhands said:
anyone else noticed this pattern?

A strength of this team the last few years is how strong we start games defensively.

Our tenacity and physicality shell shocks teams and requires them to adjust.

We very often get out to early leads.

And I think this year might be the best defensive squad we’ve had yet.
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Not better than “The Tyndall Terror Defense”
 
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#17,443
#17,443
cncchris33 said:
I hate to even draw attention to this, but some of you calling for Kellie's head may want to review her winning percentage and postseason record, and then perhaps reassess your stance on her and/or Rick Barnes.

Looking at their individual records (both overall and in conference) and postseason success/failures, it's tough to go to bat for one of them and demand better, or else, from the other.
Click to expand...
Men’s basketball has wY way more programs that can produce top teams periodically due to there being way way way more elite male athletes participating in the sport. There’s only 10 or so women’s programs with a chance to be elite. Not an apples to apples comparison IMHO.
 
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#17,444
#17,444
walkenvol said:
Men’s basketball has wY way more programs that can produce top teams periodically due to there being way way way more elite male athletes participating in the sport. There’s only 10 or so women’s programs with a chance to be elite. Not an apples to apples comparison IMHO.
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Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I'm fine agreeing to the idea that it isn't an apples to apples comparison in terms of the game (which I already admitted), but I think there is much more parity in women's basketball than some of you want to admit, though. This isn't 2003. There hasn't been a repeat winner in the last 6 women's NCAATs, and a total of 12 teams have made a F4 appearance in that time.
 
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#17,445
#17,445
cncchris33 said:
Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I'm fine agreeing to the idea that it isn't an apples to apples comparison in terms of the game (which I already admitted), but I think there is much more parity in women's basketball than some of you want to admit, though. This isn't 2003. There hasn't been a repeat winner in the last 6 women's NCAATs, and a total of 12 teams have made a F4 appearance in that time.
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I think your chosen stat also supports my position. In the last 6 women’s final four 50% of the teams were one time appearances. In the last 6 men’s final fours, 87.5% of the teams were 1 time appearances. Only 3 teams made a repeat appearance in that time frame.
 
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#17,446
#17,446
walkenvol said:
I think your chosen stat also supports my position. In the last 6 women’s final four 50% of the teams were one time appearances. In the last 6 men’s final fours, 87.5% of the teams were 1 time appearances. Only 3 teams made a repeat appearance in that time frame.
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You're not really listening to what I'm saying, or perhaps just not understanding it.

I readily admit that there is more parity in the men's game. I'm not arguing otherwise. I'm just trying to prove a point that the difference in parity isn't as chasmic as it once was (say 15-20 years ago), nor quite as much as you seem to believe. And certainly not so much that one would defend a men's coach tooth and nail and at the same time demand a women's coach be fired for a nearly identical level of success at the highest level of either instance of the sport.

So sure, winning at the highest level of the men's game is more difficult...no argument from me...but I don't think it's SO much more difficult that Barnes deserves an army of defenders while Harper gets marched on with torches and pitchforks by the same crowd of people when their level of success is very comparable.

But mostly I'm just playing devil's advocate here, because at the end of the day I don't give two flips about women's basketball, so I'm shocked I've spent half a day discussing it to begin with. Slow Friday for me, I guess. 😀
 
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#17,447
#17,447
Totally neutral in the women’s basketball debate, but one thing I heard during a broadcast during the men’s tournament last year that I found interesting was in the last 40 years there has been at least one #1 seed in every women’s final four. But 3 or 4 times in the last 12 years there’s been a men’s final four without a #1 seed.

I might be totally butchering that stat, but it was something along those lines and made me realize how much more unpredictable the men’s game was than the women’s game. That said, I haven’t watched women’s basketball in probably 20 years.
 
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#17,448
#17,448
cncchris33 said:
I hate to even draw attention to this, but some of you calling for Kellie's head may want to review her winning percentage and postseason record, and then perhaps reassess your stance on her and/or Rick Barnes.

Looking at their individual records (both overall and in conference) and postseason success/failures, it's tough to go to bat for one of them and demand better, or else, from the other.
Click to expand...
Very good point. It seems that the masses are on both extreme ends of the spectrum when evaluating Barnes and Harper's respective efficacy.
 
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#17,449
#17,449
IndianapolisVol said:
Totally neutral in the women’s basketball debate, but one thing I heard during a broadcast during the men’s tournament last year that I found interesting was in the last 40 years there has been at least one #1 seed in every women’s final four. But 3 or 4 times in the last 12 years there’s been a men’s final four without a #1 seed.

I might be totally butchering that stat, but it was something along those lines and made me realize how much more unpredictable the men’s game was than the women’s game. That said, I haven’t watched women’s basketball in probably 20 years.
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Are you a Lord of the Rings fan? Because you're giving me Return of the King vibes frfr.
 
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