The Official “Regular Posters of the Basketball Forum” Thread

[Lefteye]

Sorry but some of the Big Ten schedules sucked. In hindsight, the Bama game was a play-in game. If they beat us, they are in.

Did they though? That seems tough to say emphatically with the head thumping we just took.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Heup has bought himself a lot of goodwill considering the preceding 2 decades of awful football we had.

But one thing was glaring last night was the talent and coaching gap between elite top shelf program and us. If he wants to take next step instead of being consistently good program and being a great program he's got to take steps this offseason. Namely Oline and WR coaching is awful and those position groups have gotten worse since 2022. The fact the Oline was littered with Pruitt recruits is bad.

Agreed. I can’t say there is a single coach on our offensive staff I’d be upset to see leave, which speaks to the huge issues we have with assistants. Upgrades are desperately needed, but how badly does Heupel want to get better? Because it will require firing some of his friends.

I also think we have to find a way to convince some donor to drop a stack of cash on the portal. There are a lot of holes we need to patch that won’t happen with just the incoming high school class. We need playmakers on offense. There are some available, but you have to be willing to spend.

 

[cncchris33]

Agreed. I can’t say there is a single coach on our offensive staff I’d be upset to see leave, which speaks to the huge issues we have with assistants. Upgrades are desperately needed, but how badly does Heupel want to get better? Because it will require firing some of his friends.

I also think we have to find a way to convince some donor to drop a stack of cash on the portal. There are a lot of holes we need to patch that won’t happen with just the incoming high school class. We need playmakers on offense. There are some available, but you have to be willing to spend.

Rodney Garner and William Inge have done well. Garner in production and Inge in recruiting to increase our talent level. And then LaVorn "Chop" Harbin if we go beyond the major assistants. Those are about the only 3 who I'd not want to lose.

 

[Chaz-Vol]

Rodney Garner and William Inge have done well. Garner in production and Inge in recruiting to increase our talent level. And then LaVorn "Chop" Harbin if we go beyond the major assistants. Those are about the only 3 who I'd not want to lose.

I'd even say Sims our RB coach. The RBs produced this season despite the oline which is impressive. What's interesting is none of them are Heupel lifers which speaks to who the best coaches and recruiters are on the team.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Rodney Garner and William Inge have done well. Garner in production and Inge in recruiting to increase our talent level. And then LaVorn "Chop" Harbin if we go beyond the major assistants. Those are about the only 3 who I'd not want to lose.

Yeah, don’t disagree there at all. That’s why I said offensive assistants, because I do like a few on the defensive side of the ball. It’s just our entire offense needs to be reworked, IMO. May even need to consider significant scheme changes, even though I know Heupel probably doesn’t want to do it.

 

[VolGee4]

Did they though? That seems tough to say emphatically with the head thumping we just took.

Yea, our game result doesn’t change that.

Indiana played just two teams in the top 7 of their conference. Played like the bottom 6 teams. The league sizes have changed the way to look at this stuff.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Heup has bought himself a lot of goodwill considering the preceding 2 decades of awful football we had.

But one thing was glaring last night was the talent and coaching gap between elite top shelf program and us. If he wants to take next step instead of being consistently good program and being a great program he's got to take steps this offseason. Namely Oline and WR coaching is awful and those position groups have gotten worse since 2022. The fact the Oline was littered with Pruitt recruits is bad.

I don’t necessarily totally agree, but if that’s the case then why are we beating Bama 2/3 years given their elite coaching staff (more so with Saban) and top end talent?

Do I think OSU has a better staff and talent, probably, but it’s the same staff and talent that can’t manage to beat a crap Michigan team. I think there were a couple massive factors outside talent and coaching:

-playing on the road in tough venues has been an Achilles for Heupel.

-I think Tennessee went into that game happy to be there and already with the mindset it was a successful season, OSU went into that game saying their season was a failure and the only way to rectify it is to win 4 games

-I think the injuries to Sampson, Bishop, Thornton, Squirell etc were all huge, really handcuffed things and what you could do. Not sure it changes a whole lot, but definitely think it effected things, especially the 2nd half



again, not saying talent or coaching can’t improve, it always can, but if we are going to have folks mentioning Bama’s talent level, or Florida’s, and how that’s what we need, I don’t think it’s fair to ignore that Heupel is now beating those teams a decent amount.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

Need to replace Halzle at a minimum...has not shown the ability to scheme around the talent we have, has vanilla formations as well as play calling, and usually struggles to make in-game adjustments.

As for the overall coaching staff...have to get better at player development which is sub-par for the talent we have brought in per the link below. Also, the ability of our coaches to gameplan and make in-game adjustments has been sorely lacking in key games (AL last year, Ark/GA/OSU this year). You had to expect OSU to copy GA's offensive scheme against us.

Lastly, we have to improve our overall team speed - OSU was faster than us all over the field on both sides of the ball.

 

[Chaz-Vol]

I don’t necessarily totally agree, but if that’s the case then why are we beating Bama 2/3 years given their elite coaching staff (more so with Saban) and top end talent?

Do I think OSU has a better staff and talent, probably, but it’s the same staff and talent that can’t manage to beat a crap Michigan team. I think there were a couple massive factors outside talent and coaching:

-playing on the road in tough venues has been an Achilles for Heupel.

-I think Tennessee went into that game happy to be there and already with the mindset it was a successful season, OSU went into that game saying their season was a failure and the only way to rectify it is to win 4 games

-I think the injuries to Sampson, Bishop, Thornton, Squirell etc were all huge, really handcuffed things and what you could do. Not sure it changes a whole lot, but definitely think it effected things, especially the 2nd half



again, not saying talent or coaching can’t improve, it always can, but if we are going to have folks mentioning Bama’s talent level, or Florida’s, and how that’s what we need, I don’t think it’s fair to ignore that Heupel is now beating those teams a decent amount.

Certainly not ignoring what Heupel has done against Florida and Alabama which like I said I'll give him a ton of goodwill.

From coaching standpoint, like you said Heupel has issues against good teams on a the road which is his big Achilles heel and is obviously something that has to do with coaching. From coordinator standpoint Banks has now been de-pants against the 3 veteran OC he's faced this season (Kelly, Petrino, and Bobo). Developmentally our oline and WRs have not progressed this season which is also a coaching issue.

I think what happened to OSU in the Michigan game gave a lot of people false sense of hope (me included) and we saw the a difference between a good and great program.

 

[Lankykong]

I think playcalling was significantly more vanilla and conservative this year than in previous years; I think it works its way back up. Nico wasn’t a 6th year senior so it’s probably difficult for him to get all of the concepts at once

 

[kckempf]

I think playcalling was significantly more vanilla and conservative this year than in previous years; I think it works its way back up. Nico wasn’t a 6th year senior so it’s probably difficult for him to get all of the concepts at once

The combination of Nico's growing pains (especially on long passes), receiver injuries, lack of advanced route running by receivers really limited the passing offense. Oh yeah, the disaster for each tackle as well. The fact that Sampson runs so well behind blockers and our linemen and tight ends were really great at diverse run blocking concepts saved us in a lot of games.

Something that stands out to me about these big games is that other teams at our level have invested in a lot of "consultants", which I suspect make a huge difference in game planning. Hopefully we can identify some experienced coaches who we can bring in as consultants to get back into the coaching ranks, which would give us stronger game planning in these big games, especially if we ever have a talent gap like we did against Ohio State. The difference between their performance against Michigan and their performance against us I think comes down to having the plan to get us on the back foot, and we had no plan that showed them something they hadn't seen before.

 

[cncchris33]

I don’t necessarily totally agree, but if that’s the case then why are we beating Bama 2/3 years given their elite coaching staff (more so with Saban) and top end talent?

Do I think OSU has a better staff and talent, probably, but it’s the same staff and talent that can’t manage to beat a crap Michigan team. I think there were a couple massive factors outside talent and coaching:

-playing on the road in tough venues has been an Achilles for Heupel.

-I think Tennessee went into that game happy to be there and already with the mindset it was a successful season, OSU went into that game saying their season was a failure and the only way to rectify it is to win 4 games

-I think the injuries to Sampson, Bishop, Thornton, Squirell etc were all huge, really handcuffed things and what you could do. Not sure it changes a whole lot, but definitely think it effected things, especially the 2nd half



again, not saying talent or coaching can’t improve, it always can, but if we are going to have folks mentioning Bama’s talent level, or Florida’s, and how that’s what we need, I don’t think it’s fair to ignore that Heupel is now beating those teams a decent amount.

Florida is no longer an elite SEC team, and this Bama version wasn't, either. We still needed overtime to beat Florida in Knoxville, who was not very good at all when we played them. And we needed a gift interception on their final drive to beat Bama. Both of those games could have gone either way.

Tennessee isn't nearly as bad as many want to portray them, but we're not nearly as good as a team like OSU. The talent, speed, athleticism, scheming was all on another planet Saturday night. We got grossly outplayed and outcoached. There's just no way to watch that game and minimize the disparity. That's the most talented team in the country we played. And we aren't particularly close to them in any area. The problem is I struggle to believe we will make the changes necessary to close that gap.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Florida is no longer an elite SEC team, and this Bama version wasn't, either. We still needed overtime to beat Florida in Knoxville, who was not very good at all when we played them. And we needed a gift interception on their final drive to beat Bama. Both of those games could have gone either way.

Tennessee isn't nearly as bad as many want to portray them, but we're not nearly as good as a team like OSU. The talent, speed, athleticism, scheming was all on another planet Saturday night. We got grossly outplayed and outcoached. There's just no way to watch that game and minimize the disparity. That's the most talented team in the country we played. And we aren't particularly close to them in any area. The problem is I struggle to believe we will make the changes necessary to close that gap.

A much more fair take than many I’ve seen, I don’t necessarily think that that’s the outcome 10/10 times though. I think that game in Neyland with a healthy Tennessee and a OSU staff not potentially looking at losing their jobs with a L and you very well likely have a different game. Not saying the end result differs, but I don’t necessarily think the gap with all things neutral is really quite as big as they made it seem, kind of perfect storm if you will.

With that said, agreed there’s a disparity in talent, OSU has the most expensive roster in CFB almost certainly, not sure Tennessee wants or necessarily has to go that route. I think there’s something to stacking Top 15 classes, roster continuity with the pieces you feel best about, portal additions to supplement the fat you trim. They’ve made huge strides with the roster, but there’s still a clear difference when we drop down to 2nd and 3rd string verse when other teams do, and that’s the next step. Most nights our 22 against their 22 is pretty fair in most matchups, it’s the next 22-44 that you see the drop off most nights imo.

Again, not to say they can’t recruit even better or make coaching changes, definitely room for improvement and a need for self evaluation, but I’m not nearly as doom and gloom as many.

 

[Lankykong]

Florida is no longer an elite SEC team, and this Bama version wasn't, either. We still needed overtime to beat Florida in Knoxville, who was not very good at all when we played them. And we needed a gift interception on their final drive to beat Bama. Both of those games could have gone either way.

Tennessee isn't nearly as bad as many want to portray them, but we're not nearly as good as a team like OSU. The talent, speed, athleticism, scheming was all on another planet Saturday night. We got grossly outplayed and outcoached. There's just no way to watch that game and minimize the disparity. That's the most talented team in the country we played. And we aren't particularly close to them in any area. The problem is I struggle to believe we will make the changes necessary to close that gap.

Florida may have grown to be good already when we played them; we took out their QB who had a great completion percentage for the year as well as one of their best RBs if I remember right. I think they were just bad at the start of the year and maybe got a bit unlucky and of course were really bad after they played us for a while since they were all freshmen

 

[cncchris33]

Florida may have grown to be good already when we played them; we took out their QB who had a great completion percentage for the year as well as one of their best RBs if I remember right. I think they were just bad at the start of the year and maybe got a bit unlucky and of course were really bad after they played us for a while since they were all freshmen

Losing G. Mertz and replacing him with Lagway seemed to catapult then towards a more promising season. He's just better. We were a two touchdown favorite to win that game for a reason. They went 5-2 after the Tennessee game, with both losses coming to CFP teams (Georgia and Texas) away from home. 2025 Florida is going to be a problem if I had to guess. But the version we struggled to beat was scuffling.

 

[cncchris33]

A much more fair take than many I’ve seen, I don’t necessarily think that that’s the outcome 10/10 times though. I think that game in Neyland with a healthy Tennessee and a OSU staff not potentially looking at losing their jobs with a L and you very well likely have a different game. Not saying the end result differs, but I don’t necessarily think the gap with all things neutral is really quite as big as they made it seem, kind of perfect storm if you will.

With that said, agreed there’s a disparity in talent, OSU has the most expensive roster in CFB almost certainly, not sure Tennessee wants or necessarily has to go that route. I think there’s something to stacking Top 15 classes, roster continuity with the pieces you feel best about, portal additions to supplement the fat you trim. They’ve made huge strides with the roster, but there’s still a clear difference when we drop down to 2nd and 3rd string verse when other teams do, and that’s the next step. Most nights our 22 against their 22 is pretty fair in most matchups, it’s the next 22-44 that you see the drop off most nights imo.

Again, not to say they can’t recruit even better or make coaching changes, definitely room for improvement and a need for self evaluation, but I’m not nearly as doom and gloom as many.

Not sure about the bolded. Of our 22, how many would start for OSU? You can already rule out any of our OL or WR positions, so that's 8 off the board. Neither of our LBs are starting there, so that's 10. Will Brooks isn't starting, so there's 11.

So let's talk about guys who might start. James Pearce starts opposite Jack Sawyer. To me, that's maybe the only guarantee. Norman-Lott might start...that's debatable. Jermod McCoy, maybe? Nico or Will Howard is maybe a wash. Hard to know what Nico might look like in an offense where he gets time to throw AND has WRs capable of creating separation AND an OC who can get guys as wide open as they were on Saturday night. Neither team has an elite TE, so that's probably a wash, too.

Let's assume all those go advantage Tennessee. That's 5 guys in our 22 who could potentially start over what OSU has. And then as you said, the drop-off beyond that may as well be as wide as the Grand Canyon.

So, best case scenario, we play them in Neyland in September at night, we play our best game and they play their C game, then we might keep it within striking distance to have a shot in the 4th q. But, if they play their best game, then our best game won't match up. Situation, time, place, weather...none of that matters. They are just that much better on the field and in the coach's box than we are, unfortunately. And there's nothing wrong in saying that. That's what decades of stacking elite talent will do. Maybe we will get there, but Heupel is going to have to get uncomfortable with regards to his system and how he handles his staff. I have concerns on both until I see him make the first move.

 

[SalVolinus]

Anyone know why Carr quit?

 

[berryvol]

Yeah wtf. Not great news at all.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

So, when are we allowed to panic about our lack of depth? I’m told most elite teams only have 7-8 rotational players, but with Boswell’s injury we’re now down to literally only 8 scholarship players….

This is insane.

 

[berryvol]

@bleedingTNorange @Stoerner Fumbles do either of y’all know what happened here? Or at liberty to say?

 

[swchandler1988]

What’s Boswell’s injury again?

 

[omghulkhands]

@bleedingTNorange @Stoerner Fumbles do either of y’all know what happened here? Or at liberty to say?

It’s probably as simple as the kid wants starter type minutes and he isn’t gonna get them behind JM, JG and CL

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Heard rumors of it, honestly thought he’d stick it out, guessing his family had a spot and guaranteed money in mind. He can’t play until next year, so gonna have to sit out, maybe medical RS, not sure the point of doing it now though.

 

[VolArmy74]

Mid-season portal shopping time?

 

[TheMookieMonster]

It’s probably as simple as the kid wants starter type minutes and he isn’t gonna get them behind JM, JG and CL

Even if that is what he wants, all 3 of those guys are gone next year. He’d have a pretty strong chance of getting starter minutes if he stuck around. Just a really selfish move that puts us in a brutal situation.