The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

#1,007
#1,007
bigorange said:
Very interesting concept

The New Ammunition That Has Gun Owners Drooling | The Liberty Digest
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Here's the thing though. The permanent wound channel produced by the barbs or whatever those thingies are on the tip is way, way too shallow especially in gel to have an effective wounding potential. And the base of the projectile acts more like an FMJ load than anything and has significant overpenetration.

Plus, a friend was telling me about the whole CNC thing that it will be pretty hard to make the design so chances of these being cheap (solid copper plus the additional machining) is going to be pretty low.

If you follow a guy named DocGKR he outlines what a decent self defense load should be as well as the ballistics behind it:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4328-Basic-Wound-Ballistic-Terminal-Performance-Facts

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

To me, this isn't even a solution searching for a problem. Looks great in videos, but the lack of temporary and permanent crush cavities makes it about as effective as an FMJ. It might create a bloody wound, but to my eyes is less effective than a modern bonded JHP or something like the Barnes solids.
 
#1,008
#1,008
Grand Vol said:
Here's the thing though. The permanent wound channel produced by the barbs or whatever those thingies are on the tip is way, way too shallow especially in gel to have an effective wounding potential. And the base of the projectile acts more like an FMJ load than anything and has significant overpenetration.

Plus, a friend was telling me about the whole CNC thing that it will be pretty hard to make the design so chances of these being cheap (solid copper plus the additional machining) is going to be pretty low.

If you follow a guy named DocGKR he outlines what a decent self defense load should be as well as the ballistics behind it:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4328-Basic-Wound-Ballistic-Terminal-Performance-Facts

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

To me, this isn't even a solution searching for a problem. Looks great in videos, but the lack of temporary and permanent crush cavities makes it about as effective as an FMJ. It might create a bloody wound, but to my eyes is less effective than a modern bonded JHP or something like the Barnes solids.
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These do come across as bloody bleed out wound instead of instant kill.

The cost for these would be extremely high since it's sold copper. I think a good olé fashion hollow point will do just fine.
 
#1,009
#1,009
Grand Vol said:
Here's the thing though. The permanent wound channel produced by the barbs or whatever those thingies are on the tip is way, way too shallow especially in gel to have an effective wounding potential. And the base of the projectile acts more like an FMJ load than anything and has significant overpenetration.

Plus, a friend was telling me about the whole CNC thing that it will be pretty hard to make the design so chances of these being cheap (solid copper plus the additional machining) is going to be pretty low.

If you follow a guy named DocGKR he outlines what a decent self defense load should be as well as the ballistics behind it:

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4328-Basic-Wound-Ballistic-Terminal-Performance-Facts

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

To me, this isn't even a solution searching for a problem. Looks great in videos, but the lack of temporary and permanent crush cavities makes it about as effective as an FMJ. It might create a bloody wound, but to my eyes is less effective than a modern bonded JHP or something like the Barnes solids.
Click to expand...

Well at least they look mean :p
 
#1,010
#1,010
TNsnyper20 said:
These do come across as bloody bleed out wound instead of instant kill.

The cost for these would be extremely high since it's sold copper. I think a good olé fashion hollow point will do just fine.
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You can get solid copper slugs like Barnes TAC-XPD which run about the same as bonded HP designs. However, with the additional machining required in these my friend says the price would about double. So maybe up to $2 a round or more. Of course bulk buys would help, but still won't bring it down that much.

I have a good supply of the Remington Golden Saber and I'm slowly buying the Federal HST to replace it as I fire off my carry ammo. Figure if it's good enough for police departments, it'll be good enough for me.
 
#1,011
#1,011
Just as an FYI to the gun guys and gals on here. The media is having a frenzy on all the shootings lately and I figure it's going to be sooner rather than later that someone in Congress starts bringing up magazine, weapons or bulk ammo bans once again. So if you are on the fence about buying any of the above to include parts, I'd say now would be a good time to pull the trigger (no pun intended) on that purchase. Magazines, parts and weapons are at an all time low right now and it's a good time to buy them cheap and stack them deep. Ammo still hasn't gone down to pre-Sandy Hook levels, but are at the lowest point in over a year.

But either way, it's past time for the gun grabbers to start another campaign and it's never a bad time to stock up on items they will later restrict or prohibit.
 
#1,014
#1,014
I'll buy some just to have them. The videos looked impressive to me, but I'm not a guru.

I have hornady zombie killers for home protection in the 9.
 
#1,015
#1,015
Grand Vol said:
One of the industry guys on another forum saw the price on these things. $45 per 20.

No thanks.
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Meh, try buying factory ammo for a .500. $40 is about as low as one can find for 20 in that caliber. Last box I saw on a shelf at Walmart was $60+ for 20. If you plan on shooting much in this caliber handloading is about the only way to go.
 
#1,016
#1,016
I plan to start reloading. Just bought 1000 rounds of brass .223. Any reloaders out there and if so, tips for a beginner? Single press, progressive press, where do you get your supplies, etc.?
 
#1,017
#1,017
Through_The_T said:
I plan to start reloading. Just bought 1000 rounds of brass .223. Any reloaders out there and if so, tips for a beginner? Single press, progressive press, where do you get your supplies, etc.?
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There are other places but Brownells, Midway and Cabelas are where I usually order my supplies. Look around locally for things like powder and primers since while they can ship it you'll be hit with a hazmat fee so unless you're ordering a fair amount it's not terribly cost efficient. I haven't checked much lately but word is that powder (or at least the common ones) is about like .22LR at the moment.

Purchase at least one good handloading manual and read the crap out of it.
 
#1,018
#1,018
Through_The_T said:
I plan to start reloading. Just bought 1000 rounds of brass .223. Any reloaders out there and if so, tips for a beginner? Single press, progressive press, where do you get your supplies, etc.?
Click to expand...

If you are starting out I would go single stage until you understand all the processes and accuracy requirements. Too easy to mess up on multi stage on a large volume of rounds. Multistage does allow for mass production. If I were you I'd get a lee single stage rock chucker. IMO
 
#1,019
#1,019
hndog609 said:
There are other places but Brownells, Midway and Cabelas are where I usually order my supplies. Look around locally for things like powder and primers since while they can ship it you'll be hit with a hazmat fee so unless you're ordering a fair amount it's not terribly cost efficient. I haven't checked much lately but word is that powder (or at least the common ones) is about like .22LR at the moment.

Purchase at least one good handloading manual and read the crap out of it.
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Huge back order for most needed powders. Buying anything over 1 lbs online is a hassle cause of fees.
 
#1,020
#1,020
SergeantVol said:
If you are starting out I would go single stage until you understand all the processes and accuracy requirements. Too easy to mess up on multi stage on a large volume of rounds. Multistage does allow for mass production. If I were you I'd get a lee single stage rock chucker. IMO
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The Rock Chucker is an RCBS press (though Lee does make some good stuff) but otherwise solid advice.

The Rock Chuck can also be bought in a "kit" form which includes lot of the stuff you'd need to buy anyway (scale, priming tool, etc)
 
#1,021
#1,021
hndog609 said:
Meh, try buying factory ammo for a .500. $40 is about as low as one can find for 20 in that caliber. Last box I saw on a shelf at Walmart was $60+ for 20. If you plan on shooting much in this caliber handloading is about the only way to go.
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Yeah, but that's the .500 and I don't think prices on those unique and limited calibers will ever come down.

Other than the craziness last year and things like Black Talons, when's the last time you say a price of $2 per round on 9mm? Except for stupid stuff like Lemas ammo that didn't work anyway.
 
#1,022
#1,022
hndog609 said:
The Rock Chucker is an RCBS press (though Lee does make some good stuff) but otherwise solid advice.

The Rock Chuck can also be bought in a "kit" form which includes lot of the stuff you'd need to buy anyway (scale, priming tool, etc)
Click to expand...

I got a lee precision many years ago u still use for rifle rounds for long range shooting.
 
#1,023
#1,023
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, but that's the .500 and I don't think prices on those unique and limited calibers will ever come down.

Other than the craziness last year and things like Black Talons, when's the last time you say a price of $2 per round on 9mm? Except for stupid stuff like Lemas ammo that didn't work anyway.
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Actually that's kinda the point I was making...buying for a .500 (and like calibers) is a pain regardless of bullet type/load. (OTOH one doesn't tend to shoot too many .500's at a time :))

I never really understood the Black Talon nuttiness. Perfect case of media sensationalism meeting public ignorance.
 
#1,024
#1,024
hndog609 said:
Actually that's kinda the point I was making...buying for a .500 (and like calibers) is a pain regardless of bullet type/load. (OTOH one doesn't tend to shoot too many .500's at a time :))

I never really understood the Black Talon nuttiness. Perfect case of media sensationalism meeting public ignorance.
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They still make them lol. The Winchester Ranger T line is basically a Black Talon minus the moly coating. Just not exactly advertised.

My point was that you can get proven designs like the Gold Dot, Federal HST, Golden Saber Bonded, etc for way, way, way cheaper than some pie in the sky round that magically cuts through cinder block and explodes a watermelon and a chicken.

Me? If I was going to get a serious combat round? I'd use the Xtreme Rabid Badger Rounds.

Xtreme Rabid Badger Rounds signal a paradigm shift in home defense and anti-terrorism ammunition. Utilizing the same state of the art technology that puts foam dinosaurs in those plastic capsules that dissolve in hot water, I've been able to enhance what would be otherwise boring hollowpoint ammunition with a rabid badger core. The exact process is totally secret and proprietary.

Upon striking the body of your target, a rabid badger is unleashed through a process that involves a lot of really hard to understand math and physics calculations, and possibly some magic. The resulting stopping power goes beyond devastating, and is actually completely unable to be measured. In every ballistic test conducted, the badger ate the gelatin block, and then quickly turned on the testers.

My cores use very expensive laboratory grade badgers that are 99.9% pure, and 100% insane with rabies.

The shock of a rabid badger bursting from a teammate's body and then going totally nuts adds a psychological warfare element that is unmatched by any other ammunition maker in the industry today. To further enhance this, I took a cue from the A-10, and painted a scary face on each and every round.

Already in use by Elite Team Fighting and many other highly trained special operations forces around the world, XRBR rounds represent the zenith in small arms ammunition technology. Get yours today!
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(attributed to Hotpig on another forum)
 
#1,025
#1,025
Grand Vol said:
They still make them lol. The Winchester Ranger T line is basically a Black Talon minus the moly coating. Just not exactly advertised.

My point was that you can get proven designs like the Gold Dot, Federal HST, Golden Saber Bonded, etc for way, way, way cheaper than some pie in the sky round that magically cuts through cinder block and explodes a watermelon and a chicken.

Me? If I was going to get a serious combat round? I'd use the Xtreme Rabid Badger Rounds.



(attributed to Hotpig on another forum)
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LOL! That's awesome.
 
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