The Official 2nd Amendment Appreciation Thread

[Grand Vol]

Has anyone ever seen or fired the Detonics MTX? It is going to be the US Army's official hand gun in a short time.

Ya got some insider info we need to know about?

While Detonics has some fine 1911s, they don't have the production capacity to fulfill an Army contract. I'd flat out guarantee that based on the fact it takes six months or more just to get a model from the factory.

It's neat, but I am just not seeing how a double stack .45 ACP is going to be thinner in the grips than a single stack. I'm not even sure that's physically possible. And I'd be really surprised if the military went back to a SAO pistol as a mainstream sidearm.

 

[Grand Vol]

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't fired one, but my son has one and I really like the size for a carry. So I've handled it and checked the fit. My son said he likes it pretty well, but he likes the XDS better. Since the XDS is over $150 more I figured the Shield would fit the bill.

The XDS has a bit more flip since it has a higher bore axis, but that's more of a matter of personal preference. Since S&W fixed the problem with the safety, the Shield has been one of the go to pistols.

Buy with confidence.

 

[WallyBalls]

Ya got some insider info we need to know about?

While Detonics has some fine 1911s, they don't have the production capacity to fulfill an Army contract. I'd flat out guarantee that based on the fact it takes six months or more just to get a model from the factory.

It's neat, but I am just not seeing how a double stack .45 ACP is going to be thinner in the grips than a single stack. I'm not even sure that's physically possible. And I'd be really surprised if the military went back to a SAO pistol as a mainstream sidearm.

Well said.

 

[WallyBalls]

The XDS has a bit more flip since it has a higher bore axis, but that's more of a matter of personal preference. Since S&W fixed the problem with the safety, the Shield has been one of the go to pistols.

Buy with confidence.

But...if your old lady asks, you're not quite sure about carrying it in every situation so you really need to consider adding a couple more pistols to the rotation to be truly versatile.

 

[Grand Vol]

Well said.

We had an expo out here at one of the local gun shops and I got to talk to several of the manufacturers. Each and every one of them are already planning for this competition and are just waiting for the FedBizOps notification to go full bore. It's supposed to be "off the shelf" but Ruger, Beretta, Sig and H&K all are planning some mods to current models. They wouldn't say specifically, but the quote I heard was "yep, there are things in the system..."

I'd suspect Glock, FN and S&W are as well. And I would imagine Taurus will come in with a model of the G2 as long as they factory produce it here. Same for Springfield with the XD line. I'm not sure if CZ is made here, but they could surprise some folks and drop an entry.

Lots of manufacturers out there that have a shot at this. As long as it doesn't turn into a Charlie Fox like everything else they've done in recent memory.

 

[WallyBalls]

We had an expo out here at one of the local gun shops and I got to talk to several of the manufacturers. Each and every one of them are already planning for this competition and are just waiting for the FedBizOps notification to go full bore. It's supposed to be "off the shelf" but Ruger, Beretta, Sig and H&K all are planning some mods to current models. They wouldn't say specifically, but the quote I heard was "yep, there are things in the system..."

I'd suspect Glock, FN and S&W are as well. And I would imagine Taurus will come in with a model of the G2 as long as they factory produce it here. Same for Springfield with the XD line. I'm not sure if CZ is made here, but they could surprise some folks and drop an entry.

Lots of manufacturers out there that have a shot at this. As long as it doesn't turn into a Charlie Fox like everything else they've done in recent memory.

No reason they shouldn't wind up with a really good gun. There are so many good guns out right now its crazy. Buuuut its the government...

Which means I won't be surprised to see a story reading "Army selects pistol from small, disadvantaged Detroit manufacturer in the new, rare .47Honker caliber. The gun will use recently developed triple action and have smartgun technology favored by various Congressional representatives."

 

[vol_in_ar]

well said

 

[alaVOL]

No reason they shouldn't wind up with a really good gun. There are so many good guns out right now its crazy. Buuuut its the government...

Which means I won't be surprised to see a story reading "Army selects pistol from small, disadvantaged Detroit manufacturer in the new, rare .47Honker caliber. The gun will use recently developed triple action and have smartgun technology favored by various Congressional representatives."

With the elitist bunch we have in control you are scary crazy close to hitting the bulls eye.

 

[Grand Vol]

Which means I won't be surprised to see a story reading "Army selects pistol from small, disadvantaged Detroit manufacturer in the new, rare .47Honker caliber. The gun will use recently developed triple action and have smartgun technology favored by various Congressional representatives."

I'd love to provide a witty retort, but am failing to be able to provide a productive counter since everything you said is probably true.

For me, the whole debate about the 9mm being "inferior" and all comes down to a simple point. We never signed the Hague Convention and yet still abide by it. It was signed in the 19th century since the UK had a vastly superior bullet at the time and Germany of all nations complained about it. So frankly it's past time to get over 19th century world's protests about expanding rounds and start using what's more effective.

And if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can STFU and not go to war with the US.

 

[WallyBalls]

I'd love to provide a witty retort, but am failing to be able to provide a productive counter since everything you said is probably true.

For me, the whole debate about the 9mm being "inferior" and all comes down to a simple point. We never signed the Hague Convention and yet still abide by it. It was signed in the 19th century since the UK had a vastly superior bullet at the time and Germany of all nations complained about it. So frankly it's past time to get over 19th century world's protests about expanding rounds and start using what's more effective.

And if the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can STFU and not go to war with the US.

Perfectly stated.

The Hague Convention actually came up in a discussion at work yesterday. BSing about guns at lunch devolved to the usual silly '9 vs .45' debate since one of our new hires was invovled. He's one of these guys that believes PCP enraged zombies stalk the streets and anyone carrying a 9mm is just wasting time. His go-to point was the military going back to .45 (and 'operators', a term he overused, prefering it). I tried to explain the HC and ball ammo, but it was a lost cause.

With how far ballistics has advanced its nuts to sit back and keep using ball ammo. It'd be like insisting the Air Force use prop driven planes since some countries can't keep up.

 

[volinbham]

Also, the capacity differences between 9 and 45 make up for some 9 deficiencies.

 

[xJesusx56]

My 10mm holds 15, problem solved!

 

[Grand Vol]

Perfectly stated.

The Hague Convention actually came up in a discussion at work yesterday. BSing about guns at lunch devolved to the usual silly '9 vs .45' debate since one of our new hires was invovled. He's one of these guys that believes PCP enraged zombies stalk the streets and anyone carrying a 9mm is just wasting time. His go-to point was the military going back to .45 (and 'operators', a term he overused, prefering it). I tried to explain the HC and ball ammo, but it was a lost cause.

With how far ballistics has advanced its nuts to sit back and keep using ball ammo. It'd be like insisting the Air Force use prop driven planes since some countries can't keep up.

I will say if you have to use ball ammo, .45 is better in that regard since it won't ever get smaller than, well, .45 lol

Little history fact that there were two nations that voted against the provisions of expanding ammo. The US and the UK. We wanted it since the Moro Rebels we were fighting at the time were not being put down as quickly as they could have with the .38 Long Colt. And the Army even went as far as to reissue old Single Action Army pistols in .45 LC as a stopgap measure. The UK had the Dumdum round in their Lee-Enfield rifles that in essence was a softpoint round that proved very effective.

So these days, while more obviously more expensive than standard rounds, I'd take higher lethality over making the rest of the world happy.

 

[WallyBalls]

I will say if you have to use ball ammo, .45 is better in that regard since it won't ever get smaller than, well, .45 lol

Little history fact that there were two nations that voted against the provisions of expanding ammo. The US and the UK. We wanted it since the Moro Rebels we were fighting at the time were not being put down as quickly as they could have with the .38 Long Colt. And the Army even went as far as to reissue old Single Action Army pistols in .45 LC as a stopgap measure. The UK had the Dumdum round in their Lee-Enfield rifles that in essence was a softpoint round that proved very effective.

So these days, while more obviously more expensive than standard rounds, I'd take higher lethality over making the rest of the world happy.

By all means, if there's a better round, I think they should use it whether its 9mm, .45, etc.

I can't wrap my mind around not doing that. It reminds me of Archie Bunker asking Gloria if it would make her feel better if "they was pushed outta windows?" after Gloria pointed out how many people are killed with guns.

I'm starting to think some people really would feel better.

 

[WallyBalls]

Any Glock people on here? Got a quick ?

 

[YankeeVol]

What's up Wally?

 

[WallyBalls]

Looking into getting a 19. I had turned my nose up for years at Glocks, then actually started looking into them. Long story short, Shot one...now looking for one.

Question involves Gen 3 vs. Gen 4. From what I can tell, on the 4 the grip texture is a bit different, different recoil spring(s), different mag release, and the 4 can have the backstraps changed, etc.

Any reason to go with one over the other?

 

[Seaslug]

Looking into getting a 19. I had turned my nose up for years at Glocks, then actually started looking into them. Long story short, Shot one...now looking for one.

Question involves Gen 3 vs. Gen 4. From what I can tell, on the 4 the grip texture is a bit different, different recoil spring(s), different mag release, and the 4 can have the backstraps changed, etc.

Any reason to go with one over the other?

Not really, unless you REALLY want the backstrap options. I carry a Gen 4 every day, but Gen 3's can be had for less, and there's no practical difference (despite the marketing hype).

 

[WallyBalls]

Not really, unless you REALLY want the backstrap options. I carry a Gen 4 every day, but Gen 3's can be had for less, and there's no practical difference (despite the marketing hype).

Kind of what I figured. I've had 3 pistols with backstrap options...and never changed a single one.

I've had some really good luck in the trade market recently (got out of a PX4 I didn't like and in to a XDM...and made money), so I'll probably keep fooling around until I find a deal I like for a 19.

 

[Gannon Goodson]

Looking into getting a 19. I had turned my nose up for years at Glocks, then actually started looking into them. Long story short, Shot one...now looking for one.

Question involves Gen 3 vs. Gen 4. From what I can tell, on the 4 the grip texture is a bit different, different recoil spring(s), different mag release, and the 4 can have the backstraps changed, etc.

Any reason to go with one over the other?

Go with a Gen4. Glocks are not ergonomic at all. If you're a human, then they're not going to feel great in the hand. The Gen4 guns solve some of the "blocky" feel that previous Glocks have. You can tell they took a little meat off the side and back of the grip.

 

[YankeeVol]

There's no "big" difference from Gen3 and Gen4.

 

[WallyBalls]

Go with a Gen4. Glocks are not ergonomic at all. If you're a human, then they're not going to feel great in the hand. The Gen4 guns solve some of the "blocky" feel that previous Glocks have. You can tell they took a little meat off the side and back of the grip.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Both 19s that I've checked out felt fine in my hand.

 

[vol_in_ar]

post a pic, once you pick it up

 

[Gannon Goodson]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Both 19s that I've checked out felt fine in my hand.

Hold a Walther PPQ, M&P, or an HK VP9, then pick up a Glock and you'll see what I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, I like Glocks (I have 3 of them) -- but they're not the best guns out there despite what the Glockophiles tell you. They're reliable, durable, and parts/magazines are easy to come by. With that said, the ergos are sub-par, the trigger is average, and they're ugly as all get-up. Go out and put a few hundred rounds through it and check your middle finger. You'll develop what's called Glock finger. That bulky, curved trigger guard will rub you raw.

 

[WallyBalls]

Hold a Walther PPQ, M&P, or an HK VP9, then pick up a Glock and you'll see what I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, I like Glocks (I have 3 of them) -- but they're not the best guns out there despite what the Glockophiles tell you. They're reliable, durable, and parts/magazines are easy to come by. With that said, the ergos are sub-par, the trigger is average, and they're ugly as all get-up. Go out and put a few hundred rounds through it and check your middle finger. You'll develop what's called Glock finger. That bulky, curved trigger guard will rub you raw.

I've held the PPQ and the smith (and plenty of others, I'm not new to this), for whatever reason the 19 just fits my hand. I'm not buying it as my only pistol, just another one to add to the pile.