The Official FSU @ #1 Tennessee CWS Game 1 Thread (Fri. June 14) (7PM EST) (ESPN)

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Disclaimer: This diatribe has nothing to do with baseball!

Yeah, it is disheartening to teach a class that challenges student goals. Here are some of my observations/recommendations from over the years.

First, why is organic so troublesome: A. most college classes (for example, gen chem) take a subject students have learned previously and build on it with more detail/depth. However, organic really comes out of left field (appropriate forum/thread for that slang!) and thus students don't have much preparation for it coming in. B. Based on the students who enroll, it tends to be highly competitive, since it is usually the first course in which everyone in there is pre-health or in some kind of science major.

Here are my suggestions:
1. (Doesn't sound like this is a problem for your daughter), but you absolutely cannot use the strategy where you wait until a few days before the exam to study. The problem is that every single lecture I'm building upon what we learned in the last class. So, if they wait to study, students won't understand what I'm talking about as we build up.
2. I strongly recommend against trying to memorize organic (some faculty even teach it that way, which I despise!) Many students (tends to especially be pre-health) will ignore this advice because they have succeeded in other courses this way and it has become the natural approach to learn. The problem with organic is that I can dream up hundreds of different problems/reactions that are all testing the same concept. Memorizing all of the permutations would be extremely challenging, and by doing so students will miss the underlying concept. It is really about pattern recognition and understanding why molecules behave in a certain way that, over time, becomes predictable. When you get to medical school, there's a lot of info that can only realistically be learned by memorization, but for organic that is a no-no (IMHO).
3. The best way to learn organic as I see it is to work through as many problems as possible, and if you aren't getting the right answers, go meet with the instructor. Beyond the homework for the class, there are additional examples to work through all over the internet. There are a lot of problem solving strategies that we don't have time to cover in class because there's so much core material, but we can work through those in office hours. Students think they won't get time with the instructor since the classes are large, but the reality is very few students actually come to my office hours.

Finally, there is no shame in struggling in organic. I know of award-winning researchers at the top of the field who will (only occasionally) admit that they got a C in Organic I. I myself struggled with it at first, which helps me in teaching since I understand the challenges. On the other hand, for some students it just clicks. It can be dangerous when such a person teaches it because they won't understand why it causes many others trouble. Finally, due to the reputation of the course, it can be overlooked by admissions to medical programs. I know of students who received Cs and even Ds in organic and still got into medical programs, although that could have certainly changed and is risky and not ideal. Anyways, I hope there may be something in here that is helpful and I wish your daughter all the best!
Off topic, sure, but right on point for many in incoming college freshman!

My oldest is off to Chapel Hill in August. He has neuroscience aspirations. I have copied and printed your post to give to him.

He is at that age where he doesn't hear anything his old man has to say anymore, and he is not quite at the point where he comes back for advice, but he will take in everything someone else has to say. So, I'm gonna take the liberty to share your post with him. Thanks for giving your perspective.
 
Off topic, sure, but right on point for many in incoming college freshman!

My oldest is off to Chapel Hill in August. He has neuroscience aspirations. I have copied and printed your post to give to him.

He is at that age where he doesn't hear anything his old man has to say anymore, and he is not quite at the point where he comes back for advice, but he will take in everything someone else has to say. So, I'm gonna take the liberty to share your post with him. Thanks for giving your perspective.

Appreciate the note RW! Best of luck to your son and UNC is an excellent school! I have 2 former UT undergrads who worked in my lab that are now in grad school there, they could even be one of his TAs!
 
I will play devil’s advocate here. I truly believe that we were just as focused and locked and loaded Saturday. I think we knew how important not getting to game 3 was, because game 3 was going to be an “anything can happen” game. Personally, I think game 2 was one of those games that just went their way, and was not related to anything but the oddity of baseball at times.

Can't totally agree with that. I believe they came into Saturday locked and loaded, but when it started going south you could sense a bit of desperation in the way UT approached their AB's and could hear the anxiety in the building, even on TV. The 9th inning rally went a long way toward shaking them out of it and restoring the feeling that they were just the better team.

I'm sure Tony pounded this into them on Saturday night and Sunday, and the feel just seemed different in game 3. There was no point in that game where it felt like they might lose, even when Zander got into a bit of trouble. After the 1st inning I said to my wife "15-1", and it wasn't too far off.
 
Disclaimer: This diatribe has nothing to do with baseball!

Yeah, it is disheartening to teach a class that challenges student goals. Here are some of my observations/recommendations from over the years.

First, why is organic so troublesome: A. most college classes (for example, gen chem) take a subject students have learned previously and build on it with more detail/depth. However, organic really comes out of left field (appropriate forum/thread for that slang!) and thus students don't have much preparation for it coming in. B. Based on the students who enroll, it tends to be highly competitive, since it is usually the first course in which everyone in there is pre-health or in some kind of science major.

Here are my suggestions:
1. (Doesn't sound like this is a problem for your daughter), but you absolutely cannot use the strategy where you wait until a few days before the exam to study. The problem is that every single lecture I'm building upon what we learned in the last class. So, if they wait to study, students won't understand what I'm talking about as we build up.
2. I strongly recommend against trying to memorize organic (some faculty even teach it that way, which I despise!) Many students (tends to especially be pre-health) will ignore this advice because they have succeeded in other courses this way and it has become the natural approach to learn. The problem with organic is that I can dream up hundreds of different problems/reactions that are all testing the same concept. Memorizing all of the permutations would be extremely challenging, and by doing so students will miss the underlying concept. It is really about pattern recognition and understanding why molecules behave in a certain way that, over time, becomes predictable. When you get to medical school, there's a lot of info that can only realistically be learned by memorization, but for organic that is a no-no (IMHO).
3. The best way to learn organic as I see it is to work through as many problems as possible, and if you aren't getting the right answers, go meet with the instructor. Beyond the homework for the class, there are additional examples to work through all over the internet. There are a lot of problem solving strategies that we don't have time to cover in class because there's so much core material, but we can work through those in office hours. Students think they won't get time with the instructor since the classes are large, but the reality is very few students actually come to my office hours.

Finally, there is no shame in struggling in organic. I know of award-winning researchers at the top of the field who will (only occasionally) admit that they got a C in Organic I. I myself struggled with it at first, which helps me in teaching since I understand the challenges. On the other hand, for some students it just clicks. It can be dangerous when such a person teaches it because they won't understand why it causes many others trouble. Finally, due to the reputation of the course, it can be overlooked by admissions to medical programs. I know of students who received Cs and even Ds in organic and still got into medical programs, although that could have certainly changed and is risky and not ideal. Anyways, I hope there may be something in here that is helpful and I wish your daughter all the best!
Thanks for the response as I truly appreciate our educators. My wife is an elementary teacher and volunteered to teach summer school b/ there are third graders who are illiterate. And this is in Williamson Co, TN. So kudos to you for teaching our youth!!

I’m all for people earning their spot in life as I disagree with self entitlement.

You hit the nail right on the head about organic chemistry as my daughter mentioned that the test problems (equations) are different than the homework. Time will tell what her future holds. I just want her to chase her dream as she loves working with animals.

I don’t like the idea of on line classes, esp exams taken on line in lieu of the classroom.




Thanks again!
 
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Off topic, sure, but right on point for many in incoming college freshman!

My oldest is off to Chapel Hill in August. He has neuroscience aspirations. I have copied and printed your post to give to him.

He is at that age where he doesn't hear anything his old man has to say anymore, and he is not quite at the point where he comes back for advice, but he will take in everything someone else has to say. So, I'm gonna take the liberty to share your post with him. Thanks for giving your perspective.
A 17-21 yr old not listening to their parents? It’s frustrating but I take it with a grain of salt. My son especially.
 
Arnold is really good. From the highlights I've looked at, he's got a mid-90's fastball with a nasty slider. But...he's not Paul Skenes. UConn got his pitch count up really high on Saturday. He was over 100 pitches after 5 innings. Our lefty batters might have a really tough time with him, so guys like Moore, Amick, and Ensley need to do some damage where they can. If we can get him out of the game by the 7th with the score close to tied, I like our chances.

Tibbs on the other hand...the guy is a monster. We need to tread lightly with that dude.
 
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