The other pandemic

[DrRosenRosen]

Sounds as if fentanyl should be making drug consumers very very nervous about consuming the stuff on the black market?

It's more and more common to test drugs now days. Festivals, etc, you'll see lots more people now suggesting you test whatever you buy for Fentanyl before taking it.

 

[kiddiedoc]

My mom had a coworker who's son died from a fentanyl laced overdose. The husband was so depressed by his son's death that he got into drugs and wound up dying from fentanyl the next year. One of my buddies from college lost his brother last year to laced drugs, his mother two years before to the same thing, and his sister will probably wind up like the other two. The pandemic and associated lockdowns have made things so much worse. My buddy's brother had been clean for a couple years, but having no job and being stuck at home alone pushed him back into it.

Gosh, that's just terrible.

 

[Wireless1]

I just spent a good chunk of time reading up on the history of ESPH and found nothing above the myriad sources to confirm your exuberant othering. If anything, the chain of action through the 1970s and 80s tracks standard conservative methods of cost cutting leading to divestiture.

Not sure what history you found, but knowing people who worked there as staff and administrators, and reviewing my post, I should have used "progressives" instead of libs. The movie Clockwork Orange and other revelations put Psychiatric hospitals under a microscope and while some of the changes were needed, it was also a grand opportunity for the greedy and the lazy to take advantage. Many of the state employee medical staff were able under the "cost cutting" to provide the same care for much more money by "releasing" patients much earlier than before only to have the patient require treatment again, and again.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

That’s not just the “leftist” solution, that’s probably the best solution.

Shhhhh. He likes using the term leftist.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Not at all. I’ve worked in law enforcement and healthcare directly with these people on a personal level for years. I know what works an what doesn’t.

Yep. The guy who has it all figured out is usually the stupidest guy in the room

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

I just think we let addicts either pay for their own rehad

You've never known an addict, have you?

 

[InVOLuntary]

You've never known an addict, have you?

I absolutely have. Have employed them in attempt to help them.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Yep. The guy who has it all figured out is usually the stupidest guy in the room

I didn’t say I figured it out but since I know these hundreds of people and their life experiences personally, I’m pretty sure I understand them better than some rando message board poster from another state who’s never even worked with them. As for calling me “stupid”, well that shows your level of discourse and intellectual discussion as always

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

I absolutely have. Have employed them in attempt to help them.

Well then you should know that 9 times out of 10, they don't have the money to pay for rehab, unless its coming from a family member. And a lot of times those relationships are severed long before rehab.

 

[Rickyvol77]

If they can get college degrees and sex change operations in prison, they should be able to get drug rehab.

They should but prisons and states can’t afford the cost of rehab nor will lawyers allow the other medical costs incurred (sending them to hospitals during treatment, surgeries required, etc)

 

[Rickyvol77]

Well then you should know that 9 times out of 10, they don't have the money to pay for rehab, unless its coming from a family member. And a lot of times those relationships are severed long before rehab.

Even when rehab is free like with UTMC and Helen Ross McNabb’s DUAI program only 40% of addicts even want to try

 

[InVOLuntary]

Well then you should know that 9 times out of 10, they don't have the money to pay for rehab, unless its coming from a family member. And a lot of times those relationships are severed long before rehab.

I do know that. It's called personal responsibility. If you dance with the devil there are consequences. Not to mention rehab is a revolving door. Especially when you consider the group that has lost family support. Why should I have to pay for someone else's bad choices?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Not sure what history you found, but knowing people who worked there as staff and administrators, and reviewing my post, I should have used "progressives" instead of libs. The movie Clockwork Orange and other revelations put Psychiatric hospitals under a microscope and while some of the changes were needed, it was also a grand opportunity for the greedy and the lazy to take advantage. Many of the state employee medical staff were able under the "cost cutting" to provide the same care for much more money by "releasing" patients much earlier than before only to have the patient require treatment again, and again.

The problem is there are no long term mental health facilities for those that used to be “criminally insane”. They are just released again and again to the streets to come to the ED 200 times a year

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Addicts do commit crimes All the time. In various ways

Some do for sure. Others are functioning addicts who support their habits by working or spoiled rich folk such as trust fund babies.

Fwiw...many functional alcoholics drink everyday and yet somehow arent shunned like the rest. Alcohol is a devastating drug that ruins more lives than even opiates, yet every 3rd commercial is for beer etc especially during sports. How many beer and especially hard liquor commercials during the Olympics or NFL games? The only reason alcohol isnt illegal like every other depressant is because prohibition tried and failed. Alcohol is a drug, plain and simple. Wealthy donors and lobbyists(bribes) as well as billion $ PR campaigns are the only reason it has become socially acceptable for the last 100 years.

Just as surely as there are guys who post here that drink nearly every day without beating their wives and stealing from neighbors, there are users of other drugs that maintain life just as well or better. Especially weed. I dont smoke, but would much rather my kids smoke once in a while when they are grown than drink. Much safer for them and others.

BTW...as a former user, most here would be AMAZED how many nurses, Drs, lawyers, teachers, executives etc use drugs on a daily basis ....many professions dont have drug screens at all after hiring. Also, the % of housewives and women in general addicted to pills such as valium/xanax...pain pills...Ritalin/other stimulants. Mucho.

Hypocrisy doesnt look good on anyone. Amazing how many folks in society talk trash about addicts while being alcohlics with pillhead wives etc....as a cop you probably know the working definition of an alcoholic, but most have no idea. Have 2 or more drinks on average twice or more per week? Congrats. Youre an alcoholic. Maybe shouldnt trash other addicts whose drug of choice doesnt have the powerful lobby that Anheuser Busch can afford.

I am big on personal responsibility, for choices and actions. Each man should be. Substance abuse and addiction will never be helped by finger pointing, Hypocrisy, or incarceration. People need help with dependence. Not judgment and prison.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

I didn’t say I figured it out but since I know these hundreds of people and their life experiences personally, I’m pretty sure I understand them better than some rando message board poster from another state who’s never even worked with them. As for calling me “stupid”, well that shows your level of discourse and intellectual discussion as always

You think of yourself as an intellectual?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Some do for sure. Others are functioning addicts who support their habits by working or spoiled rich folk such as trust fund babies.

Fwiw...many functional alcoholics drink everyday and yet somehow arent shunned like the rest. Alcohol is a devastating drug that ruins more lives than even opiates, yet every 3rd commercial is for beer etc especially during sports. How many beer and especially hard liquor commercials during the Olympics or NFL games? The only reason alcohol isnt illegal like every other depressant is because prohibition tried and failed. Alcohol is a drug, plain and simple. Wealthy donors and lobbyists(bribes) as well as billion $ PR campaigns are the only reason it has become socially acceptable for the last 100 years.

Just as surely as there are guys who post here that drink nearly every day without beating their wives and stealing from neighbors, there are users of other drugs that maintain life just as well or better. Especially weed. I dont smoke, but would much rather my kids smoke once in a while when they are grown than drink. Much safer for them and others.

BTW...as a former user, most here would be AMAZED how many nurses, Drs, lawyers, teachers, executives etc use drugs on a daily basis ....many professions dont have drug screens at all after hiring. Also, the % of housewives and women in general addicted to pills such as valium/xanax...pain pills...Ritalin/other stimulants. Mucho.

Hypocrisy doesnt look good on anyone. Amazing how many folks in society talk trash about addicts while being alcohlics with pillhead wives etc....as a cop you probably know the working definition of an alcoholic, but most have no idea. Have 2 or more drinks on average twice or more per week? Congrats. Youre an alcoholic. Maybe shouldnt trash other addicts whose drug of choice doesnt have the powerful lobby that Anheuser Busch can afford.

I am big on personal responsibility, for choices and actions. Each man should be. Substance abuse and addiction will never be helped by finger pointing, Hypocrisy, or incarceration. People need help with dependence. Not judgment and prison.

Their behavior and criminal activity is what is causing societal harm. Drug addiction is both a disease and a choice. I don’t see how anything I said is hypocritical or judging. Addicts and drug dealers statistically cause 75-85% of ALL crime in this country. The community caretaking part of these crimes that I mentioned (OD and passing out in street, DUI wrecks, dirty needles in yards and business bathrooms, hospital ED visits over and over again, assaults, urinating in public, etc) are enough to show the problem affects everyone. And yea I’d say the same thing about those who are doing the same thing under the influence of alcohol and they should be in jail as well and are. If people used hard narcotics just in their homes without any affect on anyone else the majority of people wouldn’t care. But that’s not what is happening

 

[Rickyvol77]

You think of yourself as an intellectual?

Considering I’m certified and trained and experienced on this subject and actually teach physicians and nurses on it as well as pilot a program on it for several hospital systems throughout the country, yes I would say I know more than you on the subject

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Their behavior and criminal activity is what is causing societal harm. Drug addiction is both a disease and a choice. I don’t see how anything I said is hypocritical or judging. Addicts and drug dealers statistically cause 75-85% of ALL crime in this country. The community caretaking part of these crimes that I mentioned (OD and passing out in street, DUI wrecks, dirty needles in yards and business bathrooms, hospital ED visits over and over again, assaults, urinating in public, etc) are enough to show the problem affects everyone. And yea I’d say the same thing about those who are doing the same thing under the influence of alcohol and they should be in jail as well and are. If people used hard narcotics just in their homes without any affect on anyone else the majority of people wouldn’t care. But that’s not what is happening

No offense intended bro, my post wasnt directed at you ...just responded to your post to add some clarification. I dont know you well so i have no reason to think youre a hypocrite.

Bet my left nut that a good chunk of the guys who post here to just let the opiate addicts or potheads rot in prison drink more than the threshold for alcohism though. Hell, i know people who drink everyday that look down from their high horses at any other drug addict. Blatant hypocrisy. Nicotine, caffeine, FOOD!, sex , gambling, you name it....addiction is addiction. The obesity epidemic now including a full 1/3 of Americans costs more than any drug problem in this country...and it isnt close either. Wonder how many here wanna talk about that one though? Why should healthy and or thin taxpayers have to pay twice as much for health insurance and medical procedures due to the many billions of $ in outlays from insurance companies and the government that pay for all the resulting costs and strain on our healthcare system? Hows that for hypocrisy? Your neighbors fat ass needs to put down those donuts and potato chips just as badly as that junkie needs to get off the dope. Wonder how many fat or obese people here beitch about all the drug addicts being such an expensive drain on healthcare? About 1 in 3 of the folks complaining at least. Your fat ass (and the CHOICE to continue to live that way....yall love that word choice) is more of a cost and drain on healthcare than addicts are. Alcoholism too....causes pretty much every major killer out there, including cancer. Yall love to talk about drinking those cold ones at the end of the day...or the dumb things we have all done while drunk. Then speak of the other addicts on different drugs like they are less human than you or me.

I guess to sum it up it really sucks that while most people are addicted to at least 1 thing which is extremely unhealthy...whether food, alcohol, drugs etc....they have zero compassion talking about anyone but themselves. Fat people and alcoholics cost this country and its taxpaying citizens more than addicts of any drug that has been mentioned in this thread. So unless yall are the picture of health and practice clean living and self denial 24/7 youre probably not in a position to trash anyone else....without being a hypocrite.

 

[Rickyvol77]

No offense intended bro, my post wasnt directed at you ...just responded to your post to add some clarification. I dont know you well so i have no reason to think youre a hypocrite.

Bet my left nut that a good chunk of the guys who post here to just let the opiate addicts or potheads rot in prison drink more than the threshold for alcohism though. Hell, i know people who drink everyday that look down from their high horses at any other drug addict. Blatant hypocrisy. Nicotine, caffeine, FOOD!, sex , gambling, you name it....addiction is addiction. The obesity epidemic now including a full 1/3 of Americans costs more than any drug problem in this country...and it isnt close either. Wonder how many here wanna talk about that one though? Why should healthy and or thin taxpayers have to pay twice as much for health insurance and medical procedures due to the many billions of $ in outlays from insurance companies and the government that pay for all the resulting costs and strain on our healthcare system? Hows that for hypocrisy? Your neighbors fat ass needs to put down those donuts and potato chips just as badly as that junkie needs to get off the dope. Wonder how many fat or obese people here beitch about all the drug addicts being such an expensive drain on healthcare? About 1 in 3 of the folks complaining at least. Your fat ass (and the CHOICE to continue to live that way....yall love that word choice) is more of a cost and drain on healthcare than addicts are. Alcoholism too....causes pretty much every major killer out there, including cancer. Yall love to talk about drinking those cold ones at the end of the day...or the dumb things we have all done while drunk. Then speak of the other addicts on different drugs like they are less human than you or me.

I guess to sum it up it really sucks that while most people are addicted to at least 1 thing which is extremely unhealthy...whether food, alcohol, drugs etc....they have zero compassion talking about anyone but themselves. Fat people and alcoholics cost this country and its taxpaying citizens more than addicts of any drug that has been mentioned in this thread. So unless yall are the picture of health and practice clean living and self denial 24/7 youre probably not in a position to trash anyone else....without being a hypocrite.

I agree that any addiction is unhealthy and bad and a conscious choice

 

[Sin City Vol]

Biden appears to agree with this plan by his action of keeping the border wide open.

There's been a drug issue in this country for decades but a guy who has been in office 8 months is to blame? Dumb

 

[walkenvol]

Why should I have to pay for someone else's bad choices?

Because you’re an American or due to white privilege - take your choice

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

BTW...as a former user, most here would be AMAZED how many nurses, Drs, lawyers, teachers, executives etc use drugs on a daily basis ....many professions dont have drug screens at all after hiring. Also, the % of housewives and women in general addicted to pills such as valium/xanax...pain pills...Ritalin/other stimulants. Mucho.

I didn't know the severity of that until I learned about it from one of my neighbors. Said he had an issue with his wife loosing control of her bodily functions while in the bed because she was so doped up on whatever drug she was addicted to. And I'm sure most of the women in my family are getting prescribed meds for "depression" or "anxiety" for the most nonsensical reasons.

Hypocrisy doesnt look good on anyone. Amazing how many folks in society talk trash about addicts while being alcohlics with pillhead wives etc....as a cop you probably know the working definition of an alcoholic, but most have no idea. Have 2 or more drinks on average twice or more per week? Congrats. Youre an alcoholic. Maybe shouldnt trash other addicts whose drug of choice doesnt have the powerful lobby that Anheuser Busch can afford.

Cops are either alkies or 'roided out.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

Can someone explain this drug to me? If it is so deadly and can kill so many people how is it done without everyone dying on the spot? Is it cut or something?

From the ICU bubble....
Dosages for pain relief are in micrograms, we give 100 mcg at a time, some of these people are doing much more than that. It leads to respiratory depression and altered mental status. It’s really easy to become completely obtunded with fentanyl with just 2-3 times the feel good dose. Now if someone is truly in pain 100 mcg will only take the edge off the pain and slow them to relax.
Certain medium sedation protocols have come from using fentanyl. The reason a protocol was necessary and includes narcan is because the drug wasn’t being taken seriously years ago in the medical community and people were becoming obtunded from just a couple of doses. It’s nothing to play with.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

The problem is there are no long term mental health facilities for those that used to be “criminally insane”. They are just released again and again to the streets to come to the ED 200 times a year

Thanks Reagan. Those facilities should have never been closed. The machinations and rationale that went on to make that happen should be considered a failure.

 

[Rickyvol77]

Thanks Reagan. Those facilities should have never been closed. The machinations and rationale that went on to make that happen should be considered a failure.

That wasn’t JUST Reagan. That was Republicans happy not to spend extra money and Dems happy to virtue signal “human rights”