The Pessimist Thread

#226
#226
Every recruit after a visit has stated that CBJ is a straight shooter and tells you how it is and how it's going to be and they really respect that about him... Real recognizes real... Look at Jabo Lee, he thanked CBJ for turning,I think Rutgers, onto him when it was looking like he didn't have a scholarship anywhere because of unusual circumstances... That goes a long way with recruits,high school coaches and parents
 
#228
#228
Mike4Vols said:
Don't portray the recruits as choir boys. The last minute flipping from one school to another is how this train started rolling. Both sides play the game.
Click to expand...

Never said the recruits were choir boys, but an early signing period also helps to whittle out those recruits that are "playing the game". It forces their hand to show just how serious they are.
 
#229
#229
GahLee said:
Maybe it's because you're acting like little Brittany at the 8th grade prom after she sees her crush feeling up her best friend.

We get your opinion. You've stated numerous times. Then reworded it and stated it again. It's funny that all your doing is "stating an opinion, pure and simple", while others are "attacking the opinion".

But you don't mind differing opinions.
Click to expand...

Ah, name calling. Do you feel better now?

Reread the thread and you'll notice some actual conversation going on between the attacks. Some people can have discussions whether they share an opinion or not. Sadly, some cannot.
 
#230
#230
BigOrangeTrain said:
God I wish everyone would would feel like this. People are worried about numbers when it's freaking July. I have no idea how many we are going to sign. I let the coaches worry about that.
Click to expand...

Fine, you let the coaches worry about it. In the meantime, why is it so distressing to you that some of us choose to talk about it? This is a forum about football recruiting, isn't it? I thought we discussed football recruiting here.
 
#231
#231
LebanonVolunteer said:
There is 1 reason I am all in on Butch Jones at least for now. He is a proven winner. When Dave Hart fired a career loser in Derek Dooley, all I wanted to see Hart do was hire a guy who had shown he could win at least at some level. Hart did that in hiring Jones and I am onboard till he shows me he can't get it done. What I have seen thus far, I am glad I was one of the ones early on pushing for Butch to be hired(over Strong). IMO he is doing as well as anyone could ask to this point. :good!:
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion, but Butch hasn't proven he can win in the SEC yet. Both Spurrier and Saban are proven winners in the SEC, but they couldn't translate that to the next level in the NFL. Butch was a proven winner in the conference he was in, but he has yet to prove he can translate that to the next level in the SEC. I want to see him do it. Given time, I believe he will. But proof comes with results. Despite what some think, I'm not knocking Butch. I'm just saying lets let him earn our trust rather than just blindly give it. That doesn't translate into "I don't support Butch" or "I want Butch to fail". I just want Butch to prove he can do it. I want him to succeed and be UT's coach long-term, but I'm not going to say he can't/won't fail. The harsh reality is he could. That doesn't mean he will, but it's in the realm of possibility. He absolutely deserves a reasonable amount of time to succeed, but if in year four or five UT hasn't climbed back to being a player in the SEC East, then he deserves to be questioned. I understand that's still a long way off, but I'm not one to say "Butch gets it!" when I have no freakin' clue if he does or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#232
#232
The NFL and college football are 2 totally separate games... You get a draft class every year
Where each recruit is a possible all-pro... The nfl is usually a slow process of draft picks made by someone in the front office,all based on how bad you were the year before. The worse you are, the better the player, the exact opposite of college... Being able to win games in the NFL has no correlation with being able to coach most of the time... Bill Belichick wouldn't win games if he had to coach the Al Davis led Raiders...

But CBJ has proven he wins and wins often at each stop and each step up he takes. To deny that is just not looking at facts... Recruiting was his biggest question mark after being hired not his coaching ability. He has answered that with a resounding "I'm Butch freakin Jones, I take what I want. V,B."
 
#233
#233
Weezer said:
I respect your opinion, but Butch hasn't proven he can win in the SEC yet. Both Spurrier and Saban are proven winners in the SEC, but they couldn't translate that to the next level in the NFL. Butch was a proven winner in the conference he was in, but he has yet to prove he can translate that to the next level in the SEC. I want to see him do it. Given time, I believe he will. But proof comes with results. Despite what some think, I'm not knocking Butch. I'm just saying lets let him earn our trust rather than just blindly give it. That doesn't translate into "I don't support Butch" or "I want Butch to fail". I just want Butch to prove he can do it. I want him to succeed and be UT's coach long-term, but I'm not going to say he can't/won't fail. The harsh reality is he could. That doesn't mean he will, but it's in the realm of possibility. He absolutely deserves a reasonable amount of time to succeed, but if in year four or five UT hasn't climbed back to being a player in the SEC East, then he deserves to be questioned. I understand that's still a long way off, but I'm not one to say "Butch gets it!" when I have no freakin' clue if he does or not.
Click to expand...

I think most actually agree with you in the sense of Butch still has to prove it on the field. I know I do. The term "Butch gets it" is not used in respect to in game coaching though. It has always been used in reference to recruiting. In this sense I have to disagree with you. Butch Jones has in fact proved he knows how to recruit. The talent level he has brought to UT since he's been here is head and shoulders above what it has been in years. He has proven to have an eye for talent. Without knowing all of the other aspects of what is going on with this recruiting class, as far as other recruits go, I really have no problem trusting Butch's decisions as far as taking a recruit. If he says a young man is talented enough to play for him at UT, then I really do not have a problem accepting that.

I don't base that off of looking through orange shaded glasses. I base that off of the trust I have for him in his recruiting abilities. In my eyes, those abilities alone have bought him 2 - 3 more years to turn it around on the field. I HOPE he does it sooner, but realistically two more years is not farfetched.
 
Last edited:
#234
#234
triad280 said:
The NFL and college football are 2 totally separate games... You get a draft class every year
Where each recruit is a possible all-pro... The nfl is usually a slow process of draft picks made by someone in the front office,all based on how bad you were the year before. The worse you are, the better the player, the exact opposite of college... Being able to win games in the NFL has no correlation with being able to coach most of the time... Bill Belichick wouldn't win games if he had to coach the Al Davis led Raiders...

But CBJ has proven he wins and wins often at each stop and each step up he takes. To deny that is just not looking at facts... Recruiting was his biggest question mark after being hired not his coaching ability. He has answered that with a resounding "I'm Butch freakin Jones, I take what I want. V,B."
Click to expand...

Butch has proven himself at his previous stops, in those conferences. I concur with you on that. But each step up means having to prove yourself all over again. The SEC is head and shoulders above where Butch came from. To deny that would not be looking at facts IMO. Many coaches have succeeded on one level, but not another. So, for me, I don't think it's a given he will succeed at UT. It's a hope, but it's not a certainty. I want to see the Vols winning again. When it happens, I'll be an extremely happy camper.
 
#235
#235
Weezer said:
Butch has proven himself at his previous stops, in those conferences. I concur with you on that. But each step up means having to prove yourself all over again. The SEC is head and shoulders above where Butch came from. To deny that would not be looking at facts IMO. Many coaches have succeeded on one level, but not another. So, for me, I don't think it's a given he will succeed at UT. It's a hope, but it's not a certainty. I want to see the Vols winning again. When it happens, I'll be an extremely happy camper.
Click to expand...

IMO coaching is coaching. If you can win in the Big East with Big East talent, or the ACC with ACC talent, you should be able to win in the SEC with SEC talent. Looking at how CBJ is recruiting, He is signing upper level SEC classes filled with SEC talent. It just makes sense he would win at a high level very soon in the SEC.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#236
#236
Weezer said:
Fine, you let the coaches worry about it. In the meantime, why is it so distressing to you that some of us choose to talk about it? This is a forum about football recruiting, isn't it? I thought we discussed football recruiting here.
Click to expand...

I wasn't meaning that towards you specifically. I guess I said what I did because the numbers game is way over my head. I don't know how CBJ does what he does with the numbers. I just feel worrying about numbers in July is asinine. But by all means continue the discussion :good!:
 
#237
#237
LebanonVolunteer said:
IMO coaching is coaching. If you can win in the Big East with Big East talent, or the ACC with ACC talent, you should be able to win in the SEC with SEC talent. Looking at how CBJ is recruiting, He is signing upper level SEC classes filled with SEC talent. It just makes sense he would win at a high level very soon in the SEC.
Click to expand...

This has not proven to always be the case. Plenty of coaches have succeeded in one conference only to fall flat in another. And that's in college ball. If coaching is coaching, then a successful college coach should translate to the NFL, and we have two shining examples in the SEC that isn't true.
 
#238
#238
Weezer said:
This has not proven to always be the case. Plenty of coaches have succeeded in one conference only to fall flat in another. And that's in college ball. If coaching is coaching, then a successful college coach should translate to the NFL, and we have two shining examples in the SEC that isn't true.
Click to expand...

College coaching and coaching in the NFL are 2 totally different worlds.

Come on, man.
 
#239
#239
Weezer said:
This has not proven to always be the case. Plenty of coaches have succeeded in one conference only to fall flat in another. And that's in college ball. If coaching is coaching, then a successful college coach should translate to the NFL, and we have two shining examples in the SEC that isn't true.
Click to expand...

So Bill Belichick could win with Al Davis drafting? Or Matt Millen? Or Jerry Jones? See the difference between College and NFL? Not to mention the control over players who make more money than the coaches and sometimes don't want to do anything the coaches want them to do... Your comparison between the SEC AND NFL is invalid on so many levels...
 
#241
#241
And if you want college examples, look at RichRod. Did great at WVU, fell flat at Michigan. I don't see Brian Kelly tearing it up at ND and he was as successful at Cincy as Butch was.

I agree that coaching in the NFL is different than coaching in the SEC. But I also think coaching in the SEC is different than coaching in the ACC or the PAC12. Success on one level does not guarantee success at another level.
 
#244
#244
Weezer said:
And if you want college examples, look at RichRod. Did great at WVU, fell flat at Michigan. I don't see Brian Kelly tearing it up at ND and he was as successful at Cincy as Butch was.

I agree that coaching in the NFL is different than coaching in the SEC. But I also think coaching in the SEC is different than coaching in the ACC or the PAC12. Success on one level does not guarantee success at another level.
Click to expand...

Brian Kelly took ND TO THE BCSCG... Rich rod is doing pretty well at Zona... He fell flat at UM trying to turn a pro style offense into a zone read offense without the personnel to do it... He's never played any defense, so without an offense, he was dead... He refused to play to the strengths of his team, a guy named Ryan Mallett at qb, he transferred because of his philosophy and refusal to change,Which is stupid...
 
#245
#245
Catbone said:
Come on pessimists! Don't let the optimist thread get ahead!
Click to expand...

Bone, your old avi was better.

This isn't a competition.

If it were, as a pessimist, I'd have to believe I'd lose.

My original opinion remains unchanged. I'm still hoping someone comes along with a convincing arguement to give me something to think about.

Wait, does that make me an optimist? Dammit.
 
#246
#246
It's too early to be a pessimist or an optimist when it comes to Coach Jones. Give him time, then form your opinion.
 
#248
#248
Burger said:
It's too early to be a pessimist or an optimist when it comes to Coach Jones. Give him time, then form your opinion.
Click to expand...

I titled this The Pessimist Thread mostly because I knew I'd be labeled a nega-vol no matter what because I'm not 100% sold on Butch yet. Your post defines what I truly feel. Let's let some time pass before we anoint him the Chosen One or a failure. What happens on the field will ultimately be what he is judged on as a coach. Too many on here feel the need to choose sides now. I'd rather wait and see results first.
 
#249
#249
Weezer said:
I titled this The Pessimist Thread mostly because I knew I'd be labeled a nega-vol no matter what because I'm not 100% sold on Butch yet. Your post defines what I truly feel. Let's let some time pass before we anoint him the Chosen One or a failure. What happens on the field will ultimately be what he is judged on as a coach. Too many on here feel the need to choose sides now. I'd rather wait and see results first.
Click to expand...


This statement clashes hard core with your OP.
 
#250
#250
I guess I can be both an Optimist and a Pessimist when it comes to UT football and all things involved.

Optimist-CBJ is doing a wonderful job so far. I love the direction things are going and I think it's just a matter of when not if that UT is back competing for SEC titles. Recruiting is going great and seems to be no slowing it down other than the class is about full. I think we will be in a bowl game this year and that goal will be realized.

Pessimist-I tend to try and be as realistic as possible. Some view it as being "negative", but I prefer realistic. "Butch gets whoever he wants", is just not reality to me. There are a lot of very talented kids who want no part of being a Vol and that is just the way it is. Not every 4-5* kid has interest in playing at Tennessee, even if they happen to mention UT on twitter. "They mentioned us so obviously we in it" is just funny to watch unfold at times.

I am very Optimistic that Butch Jones leads Tennessee back to wining. IF he does not and we have a couple more 5 win seasons, I will be in Hart's office asking for him to be canned next. :)
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top