The Problems with Trans-ideology

[McDad]

Follow millions of years of evolutionary biology? Nature seems to have figured it out for mammals.

There are what, some amphibians and plants (gingko trees for example) that can change sex? Other than the claim of some humans, I've no knowledge of any mammals and especially primates with the ability to "change" their gender.

Just picking @McDad on the general idea of some of this, not you.

A thought just occurred to me, there are characteristics and behaviors that are adopted between species. He raised a duck around only chickens that duck will take on the characteristics and behaviors of chickens. A goat raised in a pack of dogs, the same.
What do you think about animals taking on characteristics and behaviors outside of their biology and instinct?

 

[hog88]

I don't know enough about mammalian sexuality and gender to affirm or refute your idea. But, we are also the only mammals that have advanced language, can create experiences twith art, have awareness there are things we don't know, learn what other people have learned through written word, created machines, etc.
I think your point is that from a basic biological perspective what we see in human gender dysphoria is unique. I agree. But we're also unique in a multitude of other ways as well.

We're unique in really only 1 way, we were blessed with free will. Outside of that we are nothing more than animals.

 

[hog88]

I thought just occurred to me, there are characteristics and behaviors that are adopted between species. He raised a duck around only chickens that duck will take on the characteristics and behaviors of chickens. A goat raised in a pack of dogs, the same.
What do you think about animals taking on characteristics and behaviors outside of their biology and instinct?

That happens, as a kid we had a few ducks and they lived outside with our dogs so in a lot of ways they acted like dogs. For example they would alert when a car came up the driveway just like the 2 dogs would, however the ducks would go out to the pond and spend the day there, they didn't work the cows, ate different food and of course I never saw a dog lay an egg. So the ducks weren't dogs and the dogs weren't ducks.

 

[McDad]

We're unique in really only 1 way, we were blessed with free will. Outside of that we are nothing more than animals.

One must possess the capacity to think of free will as a concept before free will can be applied. Our differences are numerous and eclipse free will as the sole aspect of uniqueness.

 

[McDad]

That happens, as a kid we had a few ducks and they lived outside with our dogs so in a lot of ways they acted like dogs. For example they would alert when a car came up the driveway just like the 2 dogs would, however the ducks would go out to the pond and spend the day there, they didn't work the cows, ate different food and of course I never saw a dog lay an egg. So the ducks weren't dogs and the dogs weren't ducks.

We had a duck raised with chickens. Wouldn't go near the pond.

 

[hog88]

One must possess the capacity to think of free will as a concept before free will can be applied. Our differences are numerous and eclipse free will as the sole aspect of uniqueness.

Explain please.

It is the fact that we have free will that enables us to think, we are not wholly driven by our inherited instincts.

 

[hog88]

We had a duck raised with chickens. Wouldn't go near the pond.

Ducks and chickens are like Joedawg and his cousins.

 

[McDad]

Explain please.

It is the fact that we have free will that enables us to think, we are not wholly driven by our inherited instincts.

We're in agreement on the items, just not on the order. I believe our ability to think, and think of thoughts which are extra-instinctual, precedes the concepts (the idea) and the application of free will.

 

[McDad]

Ducks and chickens are like Joedawg and his cousins.

Constantly fornicating?

 

[hog88]

We're in agreement on the items, just not on the order. I believe our ability to think, and think of thoughts which are extra-instinctual, precedes the concepts (the idea) and the application of free will.

Well you're just wrong you big poopy head!

 

[hog88]

Constantly fornicating?

Close enough.

 

[McDad]

Well you're just wrong you big poopy head!

I know. I figure why break my streak.

 

[hndog609]

A thought just occurred to me, there are characteristics and behaviors that are adopted between species. He raised a duck around only chickens that duck will take on the characteristics and behaviors of chickens. A goat raised in a pack of dogs, the same.
What do you think about animals taking on characteristics and behaviors outside of their biology and instinct?

Behaviors absolutely. The "nature vs nurture" bit is centuries old but the idea that social animals adapt to companionship surroundings is completely vetted. In fiction you've got many "raised by" stories like Tarzan and Mowgli.

Characteristics not so much. If you looked at that group of fowl was there ever an issue in picking out the duck? In the aforementioned examples of Tarzan and Mowgli neither would be mistaken for actual great apes or wolves. Joe Rogan actually has a comedy bit where Bruce was simply overwhelmed by all the Kardashian estrogen to become Caitlyn. That's comedy of course but the context of the joke is based in that same thing you posit.

 

[GroverCleveland]

I don't know enough about mammalian sexuality and gender to affirm or refute your idea. But, we are also the only mammals that have advanced language, can create experiences twith art, have awareness there are things we don't know, learn what other people have learned through written word, created machines, etc.
I think your point is that from a basic biological perspective what we see in human gender dysphoria is unique. I agree. But we're also unique in a multitude of other ways as well.

We are unique in many ways. However, this dysphoria has only appeared to be a real issue over the last two-three decades has it not?

I do wonder if this is also a function of nature/natural selection/what-have-you. We've reached a level of prosperity that allows these type of crazy things to occur. For example in societies with scarce resources for survival, let's face it, these folks are probably not surviving very long due to the cold, brutal logic of nature and evolutionary biology. When resources are plentiful nature tends not to be quite as cold and brutal in the short run, but this may be a macro way that Nature corrects things and puts the species back on track. We may not be able to see the forest for the trees.

I am struck by the "mouse heaven" example and wonder if some of our human societies are paralleling the same developments.

 

[GroverCleveland]

A thought just occurred to me, there are characteristics and behaviors that are adopted between species. He raised a duck around only chickens that duck will take on the characteristics and behaviors of chickens. A goat raised in a pack of dogs, the same.
What do you think about animals taking on characteristics and behaviors outside of their biology and instinct?

Good question. The duck/chicken thing, to me, would not be as stark as the goat/dog pack because the latter is prey chumming it up with predators, although I am assuming you mean domesticated tame dogs, not a pack of wild ones because in the latter case the goat becomes lunch. They're exceptions and, as I've alluded to, because of environmental factors taking the edge off Mother Nature.

 

[GroverCleveland]

We're unique in really only 1 way, we were blessed with free will. Outside of that we are nothing more than animals.

Highly intelligent animals, at least in our corner of the galaxy.

 

[GroverCleveland]

One must possess the capacity to think of free will as a concept before free will can be applied. Our differences are numerous and eclipse free will as the sole aspect of uniqueness.

You may be right, but I'm not so sure the differences are all that great. I concede that environmental factors impact a species' instinctual behaviors, but there are mechanisms in nature that are to be ignored at our peril is my belief. Just don't ask me to identify them! I'm just trying to provide some food for thought.

 

[GroverCleveland]

One must possess the capacity to think of free will as a concept before free will can be applied. Our differences are numerous and eclipse free will as the sole aspect of uniqueness.

Thought of another thing going that makes me wonder about what the ramifications are. Have read that some studies show just under 20% of teenage girls claim to be "lesbian." Only about 4-5% of boys make the corresponding claim. We're talking about reproduction, the most potent force of life, being messed around with and the FAFO with Mother Nature results could be very, very ugly.

 

[McDad]

We are unique in many ways. However, this dysphoria has only appeared to be a real issue over the last two-three decades has it not?

I do wonder if this is also a function of nature/natural selection/what-have-you. We've reached a level of prosperity that allows these type of crazy things to occur. For example in societies with scarce resources for survival, let's face it, these folks are probably not surviving very long due to the cold, brutal logic of nature and evolutionary biology. When resources are plentiful nature tends not to be quite as cold and brutal in the short run, but this may be a macro way that Nature corrects things and puts the species back on track. We may not be able to see the forest for the trees.

I am struck by the "mouse heaven" example and wonder if some of our human societies are paralleling the same developments.

Dysphoria has existed for millennia. It is much more prevalent compared to historical numbers in our society now.

The impact on natural selection and societal drift is intriguing .

 

[GroverCleveland]

Dysphoria has existed for millennia. It is much more prevalent compared to historical numbers in our society now.

The impact on natural selection and societal drift is intriguing .

Meh. I don't know, but I'd find it surprising to have approached anything to the degree of what we're experiencing now. I believe it would not have been an evolutionary advantage and therefore individuals would have been very lucky to survive long as a general rule.

 

[McDad]

Meh. I don't know, but I'd find it surprising to have approached anything to the degree of what we're experiencing now. I believe it would not have been an evolutionary advantage and therefore individuals would have been very lucky to survive long as a general rule.

Homosexuality has been around for millennia. It seems reasonable that amount of time people have felt mis-gendered would be similar.

 

[NashVol11]

Thought of another thing going that makes me wonder about what the ramifications are. Have read that some studies show just under 20% of teenage girls claim to be "lesbian." Only about 4-5% of boys make the corresponding claim. We're talking about reproduction, the most potent force of life, being messed around with and the FAFO with Mother Nature results could be very, very ugly.

Link? Because that sounds incredibly fake

 

[GroverCleveland]

Homosexuality has been around for millennia. It seems reasonable that people who feel mis-gendered would be at least as old.

Oh, I agree. Homosexuality (and homosexual behavior) exists across nature based on studies I've seen quoted and observations growing up on the farm. Shut boar hogs up by themselves and the less dominant one is going to have a sore rear-end, but turn them loose with a bunch of sows and they go back to doing what 100% red-blooded boar hogs are designed to do.

Just get the feeling it is not as truly prevalent as it is publicly extolled to be. For example, it was said for years that the true homosexual rate for humans was just under 10%, but results of studies posited it was really only 4%-5% which paralleled observations of other mammal species. Don't ask me to link studies. Cannot recall the articles I read or where, but do seem to recall they were pretty much of an academic nature, not in a religious magazine or such.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Link? Because that sounds incredibly fake

Really could care less about your opinion on the veracity of it. Have seen it several times and I'm not the only one as Bill Maher also quoted it on one of his shows discussing the topic we are conversing about.

 

[NashVol11]

Really could care less about your opinion on the veracity of it. Have seen it several times and I'm not the only one as Bill Maher also quoted it on one of his shows discussing the topic we are conversing about.

It was fake lol, shocking Maher was full of it. 18% includes a bunch of categories beyond lesbian

Contagion? CDC survey shows nearly 18% of teen girls say they are lesbian, bisexual, or non-heterosexual

More teens are reporting their sexual identity as gay, lesbian or bisexual, a survey from the Centers for Disease Control shows. And the number is on the rise, especially rapidly with girls. Between 2015 and 2019, the percentage of 15- to 17-year-olds who said they identified as...

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