The Problems with Trans-ideology

#6,726
#6,726
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You don't have a right to as much info as possible about other people. Just HOW MUCH of my genetics or my child's genetics do you have a right to know?

Should a freaking insurance company get to do a genetic workup on my family to see if they want to insure us? Maybe the wife is BRCA.

Maybe I should demand the test from any potential woman my son might marry.

C'mon. Stay out of my shorts and stay out of my blood until there's a question like this in Olympic competition. Keep it as simple as possible.
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Competing in the Olympics is not a right. In rare cases more proof might be needed. As a fan, I don't have enough information to have an opinion as to what this person's sex is so I have no opinion as to whether this person should be competing as a male or female. Others here do seem to have a strong opinion on this. I'm asking what information they have to support that opinion
 
#6,728
#6,728
Sea Ray said:
Very very rare. Is that what we're dealing with here? I don't know
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That could be the case, however I have only seen people in the media referring to the boxer and intersex. I am not sure how they know for sure and hopefully they are not implementing their tactic of stating it multiple times until it is believed.

The IOC screwed this up and should have made sure the athletes have fair competition. That the majority of their job.
 
#6,730
#6,730
Sea Ray said:
Competing in the Olympics is not a right. In rare cases more proof might be needed. As a fan, I don't have enough information to have an opinion as to what this person's sex is so I have no opinion as to whether this person should be competing as a male or female. Others here do seem to have a strong opinion on this. I'm asking what information they have to support that opinion
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But you see the slope here, I hope?

I agree. Olympic athletes that are intersex or genetically questionable, just shouldn't be competing either way. Sad, but a very small percentage. But..........

That testing can be used against you and believe me, your insurer would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to know a lot about your family's genetics. Risk is their business and paying for the least amount of healthcare they can is their business. Your genetics, in the coming years, will be extremely useful as a good tool and as a bad tool.

It will help you "head off" or get a leg up on future issues but it will show what kind of risk you are for various diseases. Are we there yet? Not fully. But your genes have a story to tell and LOTS of people want to know what it is.

From the simple point. I don't want kids having questions of why Betty, who may even be the gym teacher, is a girl everywhere but the bathroom and looks like a girl. We need to sort that out.

To be clear, I don't want trans, genetic males with male genetic equipment, showering with girls but I don't want the school traumatized because Betty's parents KNOW he is intersex and can't break the law.
 
#6,731
#6,731
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
But you see the slope here, I hope?

I agree. Olympic athletes that are intersex or genetically questionable, just shouldn't be competing either way. Sad, but a very small percentage. But..........

That testing can be used against you and believe me, your insurer would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to know a lot about your family's genetics. Risk is their business and paying for the least amount of healthcare they can is their business. Your genetics, in the coming years, will be extremely useful as a good tool and as a bad tool.

It will help you "head off" or get a leg up on future issues but it will show what kind of risk you are for various diseases. Are we there yet? Not fully. But your genes have a story to tell and LOTS of people want to know what it is.

From the simple point. I don't want kids having questions of why Betty, who may even be the gym teacher, is a girl everywhere but the bathroom and looks like a girl. We need to sort that out.

To be clear, I don't want trans, genetic males with male genetic equipment, showering with girls but I don't want the school traumatized because Betty's parents KNOW he is intersex and can't break the law.
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So what's your stance on this? Should the Olympics allow these folks to box women?
 
#6,732
#6,732
Sea Ray said:
So what's your stance on this? Should the Olympics allow these folks to box women?
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As I've said, if you're intersex you're out of the Olympics, IMO.

Yes, it's not fair, but it's about something like 1 in 5000 folks born with SOME kind of genetics issue and many of those cause people to be in the Special Olympics, which shouldn't have this issue.

Basically, VERY VERY few elite Olympic athletes have this issue. It's not like a trans athlete, at all; it's a genetic, totally unchosen by the athlete, very rare situation. I'm sorry for them, but we live as a group and do things for group.

My concern is kids I've actually known who are born "sexually ambiguous" and choices have to be made.

But what ARE they? XY= male, XX = female. That's all well and good until one of these boxers, as a young kid, is showering with my grandson but looks like my granddaughter.

We need to keep it as simple as possible at that level WITHOUT letting some freak try to turn their young, normal boy into a girl. I have no answer there.
 
#6,733
#6,733
Sea Ray said:
So what's your stance on this? Should the Olympics allow these folks to box women?
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To clarify also, as we've seen with that POS Dr abusing gymnasts, these athletes are extremely used to having their bodies treated specially. They undergo a lot of pee tests and even blood tests for PEDs and likely a LOT is known about their body.

They agree this is part of it at a certain level. There's a reason some elite athletes spend a million+ every year on training, nutrition, testing, etc.

I see a genetic test as just part of that.

Again, BUT.......

I'm old enough to have taken a polygraph as one test for drug, theft, etc use for a position I wanted. Basically, that's crazy, but it was the standard AND they got blood and urine too, among other bizarre psych exams and such.

Do I want just anyone to have that info? No.
Do you sign up for it? I signed something..... and that was part of it.

The problem today is personal privacy goes to the highest bidder. You can bet one of those high bidders is your insurer, perhaps your employer.
 
#6,737
#6,737
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
As I've said, if you're intersex you're out of the Olympics, IMO.

Yes, it's not fair, but it's about something like 1 in 5000 folks born with SOME kind of genetics issue and many of those cause people to be in the Special Olympics, which shouldn't have this issue.

Basically, VERY VERY few elite Olympic athletes have this issue. It's not like a trans athlete, at all; it's a genetic, totally unchosen by the athlete, very rare situation. I'm sorry for them, but we live as a group and do things for group.

My concern is kids I've actually known who are born "sexually ambiguous" and choices have to be made.

But what ARE they? XY= male, XX = female. That's all well and good until one of these boxers, as a young kid, is showering with my grandson but looks like my granddaughter.

We need to keep it as simple as possible at that level WITHOUT letting some freak try to turn their young, normal boy into a girl. I have no answer there.
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There's the rub. They have not told us that they're intersex. They say they're female. At that point what should the Olympics do? Demand more personal information than they demand of other athletes?
 
#6,738
#6,738
Sea Ray said:
There's the rub. They have not told us that they're intersex. They say they're female. At that point what should the Olympics do? Demand more personal information than they demand of other athletes?
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I'd suggest EVERY Olympic athlete gets a genetic test, no exceptions. These athletes are poked and prodded and give urine and blood regularly.

Like elite D1 athletes or pros, as many of them are, they're no strangers to having strangers examine their bodies and bodily fluids.

Spit in the cup or let me have a hair follicle. Don't want to do that? It's the same as refusing a PED test. You're out of here.
 
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#6,739
#6,739
hog88 said:
I think that if they were born with the equipment they should get to play with others with the same equipment. Genetic oddities happen and people shouldn't be penalized because of them.
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Pretty much where I come down on bathrooms too.

I don’t care if you’re cisgender, transgender, nongender, or other - use the bathroom that corresponds with your equipment.

Your equipment could be biological.
Your equipment could be artificial.

Don’t care. Find the pisser that matches.
 
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#6,740
#6,740
Sea Ray said:
There's the rub. They have not told us that they're intersex. They say they're female. At that point what should the Olympics do? Demand more personal information than they demand of other athletes?
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I don’t see a problem with genetic testing every female athlete. It’s far less invasive than genital exams and more definitive
 
#6,741
#6,741
Vol8188 said:
I don’t see a problem with genetic testing every female athlete. It’s far less invasive than genital exams and more definitive
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I am pretty sure they already do with the drug tests. That information would reveal items like Testosterones. The Olympic testing for drugs seems to be the problem as the Boxing Federation disqualified these boxes but the Olympics did not.
 
#6,742
#6,742
volbound1700 said:
I am pretty sure they already do with the drug tests. That information would reveal items like Testosterones. The Olympic testing for drugs seems to be the problem as the Boxing Federation disqualified these boxes but the Olympics did not.
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Mustnotmakeboxesjokemustnotmakeboxesjokemustnotmakeboxesjoke
 
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#6,743
#6,743
volbound1700 said:
I am pretty sure they already do with the drug tests. That information would reveal items like Testosterones. The Olympic testing for drugs seems to be the problem as the Boxing Federation disqualified these boxes but the Olympics did not.
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My understanding is the boxers in question did not fail a testosterone test (I wouldn’t test for that anyway). But rather failed another unspecified test (likely chromosomal).

I think that is the only test that should matter
 
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#6,744
#6,744
Is it possible for a natural biological women (no rare cases) to produce testosterone at the same level of a natural man??
 
#6,745
#6,745
whodeycin85 said:
Is it possible for a natural biological women (no rare cases) to produce testosterone at the same level of a natural man??
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Male test is all over the map. Women can have things such as PCOS (normally caused by obesity) that can increase testosterone. Not sure how much above baseline that increase is and if it does hit the normal range for male test or not
 
#6,746
#6,746
Vol8188 said:
Male test is all over the map. Women can have things such as PCOS (normally caused by obesity) that can increase testosterone. Not sure how much above baseline that increase is and if it does hit the normal range for male test or not
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Yea that's basically what I was curious about.
 
#6,748
#6,748
Lawrence Wright said:
Whether you think this boxer is a man or woman, this person is from Algeria, a country that has no love whatsoever for the LGBT community.

Why would Algeria knowingly allow a trans boxer to compete in two consecutive Olympics, when it’s all but illegal to be gay or trans there?
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Maybe they wanted a *better chance at a medal.
 
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#6,749
#6,749
Lawrence Wright said:
Whether you think this boxer is a man or woman, this person is from Algeria, a country that has no love whatsoever for the LGBT community.

Why would Algeria knowingly allow a trans boxer to compete in two consecutive Olympics, when it’s all but illegal to be gay or trans there?
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Actually, Muslim countries don't view trans as part of the rainbow coalition. They view trans as a way to cope with and to deligitimize homosexuality. "My son isn't gay, he's just a woman born in a man's body!"
 
#6,750
#6,750
SamRebel35 said:
Actually, Muslim countries don't view trans as part of the rainbow coalition. They view trans as a way to cope with and to deligitimize homosexuality. "My son isn't gay, he's just a woman born in a man's body!"
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It would be illegal in Algeria for her to be listed as a woman on her passport, for example, if she were born a man
 
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