The Red Line: Part Deux

#276
#276
Review & Outlook: Loose Lips on Syria - WSJ.com

"I want to make clear that the options that we are considering are not about regime change," White House spokesman Jay Carney said Tuesday. Translation: We're not coming for you, Bashar, so don't worry. And by the way, you might want to fly those attack choppers off base, at least until next week.

So what is the purpose of a U.S. attack? Mr. Carney elaborated that it's "about responding to [a] clear violation of an international standard that prohibits the use of chemical weapons." He added that the U.S. had a national security interest that Assad's use of chemical weapons "not go unanswered." This is another way of saying that the attacks are primarily about making a political statement, and vindicating President Obama's ill-considered promise of "consequences," rather than materially degrading Assad's ability to continue to wage war against his own people.
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#277
#277
hog88 said:
Really you don't agree?

He needs to keep his mouth shut, he f'ed up big time here. By making the "Red Line" statement he;

1. Dared Assad to use CW

2. Opened the door for the rebels (or someone else) to frame Assad for using CW

In either case his mouth and ignorance have put this country in the position to go to war again.
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My personal suspicion is that option #2 is what is going on here. Assad was quick to allow the UN to come in.

I think the rebels realized Obama was backed into a corner, and a chemical weapon detonation that could be tied to Assad would probably result in rash action by the Obama administration.

Time will tell, but this is just my opinion.

Also, I'm curious why Biden and Kerry were so quick to say they knew Assad was behind the attack?
 
#278
#278
hog88 said:
Exactly why we should not be lending any support to the rebels in Syria. They will turn on us in a second.
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Agree 100%.

The Syrian government and the rebels are both our enemies. It is a bad situation but if we help either side it will come back to haunt us. I feel sorry for the innocent Syrian people but I don't understand how we can do anything that will make Al Qaeda stronger. They are definitely our enemy.
 
#279
#279
hog88 said:
Really you don't agree?

He needs to keep his mouth shut, he f'ed up big time here. By making the "Red Line" statement he;

1. Dared Assad to use CW

2. Opened the door for the rebels (or someone else) to frame Assad for using CW

In either case his mouth and ignorance have put this country in the position to go to war again.
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Any president would have said something. If he wouldn't have said anything he would have been flamed as well. It was a no win situation.
 
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#280
#280
DC_Vol said:
My personal suspicion is that option #2 is what is going on here. Assad was quick to allow the UN to come in.

I think the rebels realized Obama was backed into a corner, and a chemical weapon detonation that could be tied to Assad would probably result in rash action by the Obama administration.

Time will tell, but this is just my opinion.

Also, I'm curious why Biden and Kerry were so quick to say they knew Assad was behind the attack?
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Did you see the video of the UN inspectors vehicle that was attacked? I think it's awful curious as to why all of the bullet holes were in the engine compartment, none in the passenger compartment.
 
#281
#281
Vols520 said:
Any president would have said something. If he wouldn't have said anything he would have been flamed as well. It was a no win situation.
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I believe Hog is saying that Obama backed himself into a corner very early on by drawing lines in the sand.

Now he's either got to take action or look weak and insincere to the rest of the world.

Had he not showed his cards up front, he'd be in a much more tenable position.
 
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#283
#283
hog88 said:
Did you see the video of the UN inspectors vehicle that was attacked? I think it's awful curious as to why all of the bullet holes were in the engine compartment, none in the passenger compartment.
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I didn't. Was it attacked in rebel controlled territory?
 
#284
#284
DC_Vol said:
I believe Hog is saying that Obama backed himself into a corner very early on by drawing lines in the sand.

Now he's either got to take action or look weak and insincere to the rest of the world.

Had he not showed his cards up front, he'd be in a much more tenable position.
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I understand exactly he means. I just don't agree with his position.

We can do whatever we want. Who really cares what the other nations think.

Probably not wise to intervene and that would be a legitimate criticism but the outrage in this thread so far is a little weak and speculative.

I completely dislike and disagree w Obama on virtually everything but getting riled up at what he said is a little silly and simply trying to find an issue. Lets what and see what happens.
 
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#286
#286
Vols520 said:
Any president would have said something. If he wouldn't have said anything he would have been flamed as well. It was a no win situation.
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He could have been vague "Use of CW will force us to re-evaluate our position" or any other non committal political speak would have been sufficient and left us an out.

Now, we have to act or look even weaker.
 
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#288
Vols520 said:
I understand exactly he means. I just don't agree with his position.

We can do whatever we want. Who really cares what the other nations think.

Probably not wise to intervene and that would be a legitimate criticism but the outrage in this thread so far is a little weak and speculative.

I completely dislike and disagree w Obama on virtually everything but getting riled up at what he said is a little silly and simply trying to find an issue. Lets what and see what happens.
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Sure, we can do whatever we want.

But I'm willing to bet Obama's comment and his current position will influence his decision. It was not a wise thing to say, and now he's in a much more difficult position than had he not said it.

Also, I'm not riled up. Just FYI.
 
#290
#290
Vols520 said:
Any president would have said something. If he wouldn't have said anything he would have been flamed as well. It was a no win situation.
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He simply stated what supposed U.S. policy has been since the mid-80s, at least. Impeach!
 
#291
#291
Vols520 said:
I understand exactly he means. I just don't agree with his position.

We can do whatever we want. Who really cares what the other nations think.

Probably not wise to intervene and that would be a legitimate criticism but the outrage in this thread so far is a little weak and speculative.

I completely dislike and disagree w Obama on virtually everything but getting riled up at what he said is a little silly and simply trying to find an issue. Lets what and see what happens.
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weak and speculative? Senator Obama said this was illegal. Biden said he verified with constitutional scholars this was an impeachable offense.

Obama set a line that committed US forces to action in a foreign battle that has nothing to do with our defense. I fail to find any of this silly or reaching
 
#292
#292
DC_Vol said:
I believe Hog is saying that Obama backed himself into a corner very early on by drawing lines in the sand.

Now he's either got to take action or look weak and insincere to the rest of the world.

Had he not showed his cards up front, he'd be in a much more tenable position.
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Too late....he already looks weak and insincere , that's a huge part of the problem.No credibility at all.
 
#293
#293
Vols520 said:
I understand exactly he means. I just don't agree with his position.

We can do whatever we want. Who really cares what the other nations think.

Probably not wise to intervene and that would be a legitimate criticism but the outrage in this thread so far is a little weak and speculative.

I completely dislike and disagree w Obama on virtually everything but getting riled up at what he said is a little silly and simply trying to find an issue. Lets what and see what happens.
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When the POTUS draws a line in the sand he has to back it up! No if ands or buts about it, if not it opens the door for attacks against us.

Look at the Clinton years, bombed the Cole, fire a couple cruise missiles into the desert, bombed two Embassy's shoot some more missiles into the dessert.

It emboldens our enemies when we do not back up our words with actions.
 
#295
#295
DC_Vol said:
Sure, we can do whatever we want.

But I'm willing to bet Obama's comment and his current position will influence his decision. It was not a wise thing to say, and now he's in a much more difficult position than had he not said it.

Also, I'm not riled up. Just FYI.
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You are spot on. Obama backed himself into a corner.
When the POTUS speaks, his words have meanings. His bad choice of words has put the US into a bad situation thst we should not be in.
 
#297
#297
1. We bomb Syria.
2. Iran bombs Israel.

Iranian Official: Israel to Be

3. Israel unleashes holy hell on both countries.
4. Oil production is disrupted in the area for years.
5. Domestic gas prices double or worse.
6. Our economy finally goes into the tank like it has been heading.
7. 75% of the populace are dependent on the government to eat.
8. Barry has the liberal utopia that he and his ilk want.


Pretty simple really.
 
#298
#298
Velo Vol said:
Selective memory. For many people, history reset in 2009, apparently.
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Yep and on both sides - many think Obama is the first president to 1) face constant criticism from political opponents, 2) to be mocked publicly at a place like a rodeo, etc. :)
 
#299
#299
Gramps said:
You are spot on. Obama backed himself into a corner.
When the POTUS speaks, his words have meanings. His bad choice of words has put the US into a bad situation thst we should not be in.
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Well he does have a loophole. His redline comment was about seeing Assad use "a whole bunch of chemical weapons".

They are currently determining if what was used is a smidgen, a bunch or a whole bunch.
 
#300
#300
utvolpj said:
weak and speculative? Senator Obama said this was illegal. Biden said he verified with constitutional scholars this was an impeachable offense.

Obama set a line that committed US forces to action in a foreign battle that has nothing to do with our defense. I fail to find any of this silly or reaching
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The first points are valid. The second point is simply what any commander in chief would have said.

He should be criticized for again being manipulative and hypocritical, however, the two points are completely separate.

It more reminds me of how Bush made a statement that things are way different when you are actually in the Oval Office and forced with making decisions. It's easy for people to make comments as senators or congressman as they don't really have to decide anything.
 
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