The Russia Hoax: The Illicit Scheme to Clear Hillary Clinton and Frame Donald Trump

#427
#427
Septic said:
The evidence is there and it's not really debatable. Perhaps you're conflating interference with collusion?

Sounds like you've decided and can't be convinced otherwise. You asked for non partisan evidence and it was presented, no one can make you look at it through an objective lense.
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"Putin likely" is neither evidence, not nonb partisan. I didn't like Trump, but I've never met a single person who voted for him because of Russia. People just can not accept that the majority did not want Hillary enough, that they'd vote for him, but that's what happened. TDS is real, turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc. It's all they talk about.
 
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#428
#428
joevol33 said:
"Putin likely" is neither evidence, not nonb partisan. I didn't like Trump, but I've never met a single person who voted for him because of Russia. People just can not accept that the majority did not want Hillary enough, that they'd vote for him, but that's what happened. TDS is real, turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc. It's all they talk about.
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" not really " lol
 
#429
#429
Septic said:
The evidence is there and it's not really debatable. Perhaps you're conflating interference with collusion?

Sounds like you've decided and can't be convinced otherwise. You asked for non partisan evidence and it was presented, no one can make you look at it through an objective lense.
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As with many things in our world today, things are framed as “either/or” instead of “both/and.”

Do I believe that Russia tries to interfere with our elections? Of course. Just as we do with other countries. And the best way to interfere is to entice the side that is typically less trusting of government, in our system Republicans. I don’t think they have anyone certain that they prefer, just creating chaos and discord which is best done by fanning the flames of those who tend to be anti-big government.

But I also can see from the Russia probe, Steele dossier and Durham investigation that the HRC campaign and the DNC used OUR OWN intelligence community to interfere with our own election.

So, in my opinion, BOTH Russia AND Hillary/DNC were attempting to interfere with the election. However, the potential that Hillary was using our own system against a domestic political opponent is much more worrisome than a foreign government doing what would be expected to de-stabilize the government of their enemy.
 
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#430
#430
newyorkvol said:
As with many things in our world today, things are framed as “either/or” instead of “both/and.”

Do I believe that Russia tries to interfere with our elections? Of course. Just as we do with other countries. And the best way to interfere is to entice the side that is typically less trusting of government, in our system Republicans. I don’t think they have anyone certain that they prefer, just creating chaos and discord which is best done by fanning the flames of those who tend to be anti-big government.

But I also can see from the Russia probe, Steele dossier and Durham investigation that the HRC campaign and the DNC used OUR OWN intelligence community to interfere with our own election.

So, in my opinion, BOTH Russia AND Hillary/DNC were attempting to interfere with the election. However, the potential that Hillary was using our own system against a domestic political opponent is much more worrisome than a foreign government doing what would be expected to de-stabilize the government of their enemy.
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And for that they should hang same as we would treat the russian spies.
 
#431
#431
OHvol40 said:
It’s true. For better or worse, people are burnt out on the outrage because it’s non-stop.
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Now you see why the right was / is fed up with the non stop Trump Trump Trump 24/7 . The left made Trump into of all things a folk hero . They the left and it’s media propaganda machine ) turned a billionaire into the people president and never knew they were doing it because of their non stop obsession with him .. orange man bad . Amiright?
 
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#432
#432
IluvdoubleD's said:
Florida bans 28 math textbooks from school in fight over Critical Race Theory | Daily Mail Online
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I’m not much for banning books but if you including CRT and are trying to explain math based on a social standpoint.. the group that sponsored them should be banned from submitting any math related text in the future . The way I was taught , little Jonny having 6 apples and little Suzy having 4 apples , had nothing to do with how their ancestors were living their lives . 🤷‍♂️
 
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#433
#433
joevol33 said:
"Putin likely" is neither evidence, not nonb partisan. I didn't like Trump, but I've never met a single person who voted for him because of Russia. People just can not accept that the majority did not want Hillary enough, that they'd vote for him, but that's what happened. TDS is real, turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc. It's all they talk about.
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It’s really an insignificant piece of the election that certain people have turned into a pearl clutching episode. Did Russia likely try to “interfere” in the 2016 election? Yup. Did they do it before the 2016 election and after? Yup. It’s SOP.

What is going on here is the Democrats are creating a go-to boogeyman out of Putin. Then they run the “friend of Putin” smear on their political opponents. Look how often it is used now. New page in the playbook.
 
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#434
#434
joevol33 said:
"Putin likely" is neither evidence, not nonb partisan. I didn't like Trump, but I've never met a single person who voted for him because of Russia. People just can not accept that the majority did not want Hillary enough, that they'd vote for him, but that's what happened. TDS is real, turn on CNN, MSNBC, etc. It's all they talk about.
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That’s exactly how we got Biden. But I guess that’s different
 
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#436
#436
IluvdoubleD's said:
Florida bans 28 math textbooks from school in fight over Critical Race Theory | Daily Mail Online
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DeSantis running for office is all you need to know.

67fb70c1-cdc2-4c20-8db3-c4db4d9c52f3_text.gif
 
#439
#439
lawgator1 said:
I've said many times we DO know they interfered to help him. We DON'T know how to measure the effect of their efforts so it's impossible to conclude they actually swung the election result.
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I still ask the question...

If they interfered to get him elected, why didn't they go after Ukraine on his watch?
 
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#441
#441
Grand Vol said:
I still ask the question...

If they interfered to get him elected, why didn't they go after Ukraine on his watch?
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Putin has not shown himself to be much of a mastermind when it comes to this situation, i.e. dramatically overestimating his own forces and underestimating Ukraine's. The way this has unfolded certainly has the appearance that he expected this to be much, much easier than it has been. So from that perspective he may simply have believed he did not need to make his move three years ago when Trump was in office.

One wonders if he regrets not having taken action under Trump. Regardless of how much stock you put in the theory that there was some linkage there, you have to admit that Trump was outclassed by Putin by a million miles in terms of international diplomacy. Putin at worst had him completely snowed over with his charm.
 
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#442
#442
Orangeslice13 said:
That’s exactly how we got Biden. But I guess that’s different
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Nonsense. Joe didn’t even bother reading the evidence, reports and testimony. He cherry picked two words from numerous citations and disengenously waived off.

I'm not sure he understands the difference between collusion and interference, but you should.
 
#445
#445
Septic said:
Nonsense. Joe ding even bother reading the evidence, reports and testimony. He cherry picked two words from numerous citations and disengenously waived off.

I'm not sure he understands the difference between collusion and interference, but you should.
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Uuuuuhhhhh
People voted against Hillary in 16 we got trump.
People voted against trump in 20 we got Biden.
simple concept really.
 
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#446
#446
lawgator1 said:
Things like this would gain more traction but for the boy who cried wolf syndrome. Seen so many misleading right wing blogs etc on this. Just no more credibility.
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the information comes directly from Durham's court filing. I'd say that has credibility.
 
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#447
#447
Orangeslice13 said:
Uuuuuhhhhh
People votes against Hillary in 16 we got trump.
People voted against trump in 20 we got Biden.
simple concept really
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OK? What does that have to do with Joe denying the evidence of Russias interference in our election?
 
#448
#448
Septic said:
OK? What does that have to do with Joe denying the evidence of Russias interference in our election?
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This is bulk of what Joe said in the post I responded too.

“I didn't like Trump, but I've never met a single person who voted for him because of Russia. People just can not accept that the majority did not want Hillary enough, that they'd vote for him, but that's what happened.”

I don’t honestly know what you’re on about
 
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#449
#449
volinbham said:
the information comes directly from Durham's court filing. I'd say that has credibility.
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So did the last bastardization of what he said in court filings to the point he had to jump in and tell the right wing media they were misrepresenting his statements.

Therein lies the problem. No credibility.
 
#450
#450
Septic said:
OK? What does that have to do with Joe denying the evidence of Russias interference in our election?
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I remember when trump told Putin he'd have more flexibility after the election to work with him. Wait, that wasn't trump. I remember, it was him selling uranium to Russia, wait that wasn't trump either. Sure is a lot of collusion that didn't involve trump, and you all completely ignore it. Russia had nothing to do with more people voting for trump over Hillary. That's what I'm saying.
 
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