The Thread Where People Argue About Kneeling in the NFL (merged)

I am constantly amazed at the amount of hate LJ gets. Of course, when you are one of the GOATs, it comes with the territory.

LJ isn't very likeable at times like other past GOATs like Kobe, Jordan, Ewing, Bird, etc. The way he left Cleveland turned people off but he came back and kind of redeemed himself. His more vocal politics as well.

It still doesn't take from the fact that he is one of the GOATs. It is really hard to pick between him and Michael Jordan as to who is the best.

Michael Jordan competed in college, stuck with the same program, and was a lot more likeable but Lebron is definitely up there as well.
 
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Two wrongs don't make a right.

When your defense is pointing out the wrong of someone else, you lost the argument.

Then again, I do think Lebron takes too much flak for stuff. He has a solid argument for being the GOAT and I had no issue with him being a flag bearer. Is he divisive? Yes. A lot of athletes/celebrities are divisive however.
He pointed it out and then proceeded to justify it, not me:
I think it’s ironic that Kobe Bryant did some of things he did off the court and yet he is a 100 times more revered globally than Lebron is. Lebron hasn’t had any off the court issues as far as I am aware but the majority of people dislike him because he self proclaimed himself “The Chosen One”. I know whenever I saw him lean into that, I was like yeah no thanks, I’m out on you. And then you see the flopping on the court and a lot of bonehead plays he has made over the years, I just laugh at people who support him. He’s 100% fake, never a real moment with him. Didn’t like him whenever he was in high school and don’t like him now. I loathe that he is on the Lakers. Absolutely hate it.
 
I am constantly amazed at the amount of hate LJ gets. Of course, when you are one of the GOATs, it comes with the territory.

FTR, I do get why he irks people. He irks me, too. It's not all love from me, even though he's among my favorite players all time.

I do think he is fake. All players have to be a little fake, but he's above average (and it makes sense for him to be, but it still bothers me). I hate the ref manipulation, but also, who doesn't do that? Everybody, even in the 90's. Even MJ. But Lebron does it a lot, especially pretending he's hurt after a hard foul. I just grew up thinking you looked weak if you showed you were hurt. He does it to curry favor with the refs and it's a winning strategy, I just don't like it. He has some poorly though-out political opinions, which puts him with basically every other sports star, so I don't see the big deal.

Because he's so good, he will be hated of course, but the level of hate goes way beyond matching anything he's done to merit it. Lakers fans hate him more than they like winning. I got Philly friend who said he would rather have struck out in FA than get Lebron and win a title this year. It's insane.

Bro grew up without a Dad, his Mom is/was rough around the edges, he's been treated like a god since he was a teenager, he's a billionaire, and we hate him because we think he's douchey. Of course he's douchey. He had almost no chance at not being douchey. We got a lot of dudes around here on VN who have a Dad, a great Mom, no talent, no $, and they are arrogant douches. What's their/my (LOL) excuse?
 
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C'mon now. No need to get ridiculous. I can't stand the guy, but he didn't do anything in high school that was worthy of disdain.
Any teenager dubbing themselves as “The Chosen One” is a no-go for me. Never liked him from the start. Sorry not sorry 🤷‍♂️
 
LJ isn't very likeable at times like other past GOATs like Kobe, Jordan, Ewing, Bird, etc. The way he left Cleveland turned people off but he came back and kind of redeemed himself. His more vocal politics as well.

It still doesn't take from the fact that he is one of the GOATs. It is really hard to pick between him and Michael Jordan as to who is the best.

Michael Jordan competed in college, stuck with the same program, and was a lot more likeable but Lebron is definitely up there as well.
You can make a case that LeBron would barely be in the Top 10 Lakers of all time.
Magic
Jabbar
Worthy
Baylor
West
Kobe
Shaq
Mikan
Chamberlain

1722266733887.png
 
LJ isn't very likeable at times like other past GOATs like Kobe, Jordan, Ewing, Bird, etc. The way he left Cleveland turned people off but he came back and kind of redeemed himself. His more vocal politics as well.

It still doesn't take from the fact that he is one of the GOATs. It is really hard to pick between him and Michael Jordan as to who is the best.

Michael Jordan competed in college, stuck with the same program, and was a lot more likeable but Lebron is definitely up there as well.
Cleveland wasn't interested in competing for championship during his first tour with the Cavs. It is pretty easy to see why he left at that time. Go back and look at the supporting cast of scrubs LJ was playing with in that finals appearance against the Spurs. He was dishing the ball to guys like Daniel Gibson and Anderson Varejao. Barf! It is really impressive that team was able to make it to a finals on the back of Lebron.
MJ is still the GOAT over Lebron imo but he is making a case every year he continues to play.
 
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You can make a case that LeBron would barely be in the Top 10 Lakers of all time.
Magic
Jabbar
Worthy
Baylor
West
Kobe
Shaq
Mikan
Chamberlain

View attachment 662719

Wait, what? You mean as a Laker, or just judging their full careers.

Wilt was not that great of a Laker, TBH. Lebron's definitely passed him, and he's 100% definitely passed all of them if we're talking total career, and not just Laker years.
 
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FTR, I do get why he irks people. He irks me, too. It's not all love from me, even though he's among my favorite players all time.

I do think he is fake. All players have to be a little fake, but he's above average (and it makes sense for him to be, but it still bothers me). I hate the ref manipulation, but also, who doesn't do that? Everybody, even in the 90's. Even MJ. But Lebron does it a lot, especially pretending he's hurt after a hard foul. I just grew up thinking you leaked weak if you showed you were hurt. He does it to curry favor with the refs and it's a winning strategy, I just don't like it. He has some poorly though-out political opinions, which puts him with basically every other sports star, so I don't see the big deal.

Because he's so good, he will be hated of course, but the level of hate goes way beyond matching anything he's done to merit it.

The key is that there was this "golden age" of athletics that guys like LJ are compared against (probably unfairly).

The 1980s/1900s gave us a lot of great athletes we wanted their playing cards for. I am going to use Football since I know it best but same could be said for NBA, MLB, etc.

As great as the players are today, people still look back at players like Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Eddie George, etc. Something about that era produced very likeable and impressive athletes across the board. It probably helped that politics was a lot simpler and the economy stronger in that era. Ironically, we may have better players today but it seems like most of them don't stack up to these "greats" unless they are Tom Brady level.

People still remember the NBA era of Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Charles Barkley, Isaiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler, Shaquille O'Neal, etc. as the greatest era just like the NFL era that I listed above with the 49ers/Cowboy dynasties.

I can't 100% explain it but none of the athletes since tend to measure up to this era even though I think the teams and athletes are just as good today. There is just this magic nostalgia around it.

One of the largest arguments around Lebron (whether or true or not) is that he didn't play in the era of the dream team and Jordan did (i.e. Jordan played against better competition). This tends to be the case across the board and not just the NBA.

We still rave about 2001 Miami and 1995 Nebraska. 2001 Miami would likely get beat by 2-3 TDs by 2022-2023 Georgia. The level of play in college (especially on offense) has improved dramatically. What teams like Miami and Nebraska had that helped them in their era are pretty widespread around the sport now and has been improved on.
 
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Cleveland wasn't interested in competing for championship during his first tour with the Cavs. It is pretty easy to see why he left at that time. Go back and look at the supporting cast of scrubs LJ was playing with in that finals appearance against the Spurs. He was dishing the ball to guys like Daniel Gibson and Anderson Varejao. Barf! It is really impressive that team was able to make it to a finals on the back of Lebron.
MJ is still the GOAT over Lebron imo but he is making a case every year he continues to play.

I personally think it is 50/50 right now. It is hard to deny what Lebron is doing and the fact he is still playing at this age. Now, MJ won a National Title in College while Lebron never played college. I think it is harder to win March Madness (mostly due to the one-and-done situation) than it is to win an NBA title.

To me, the championship at UNC might be what gives MJ the lead. MJ also quit basketball to play baseball so there is a lot of speculation about what MJ could have done if he stayed in the sport.
 
Cleveland wasn't interested in competing for championship during his first tour with the Cavs. It is pretty easy to see why he left at that time. Go back and look at the supporting cast of scrubs LJ was playing with in that finals appearance against the Spurs. He was dishing the ball to guys like Daniel Gibson and Anderson Varejao. Barf! It is really impressive that team was able to make it to a finals on the back of Lebron.
MJ is still the GOAT over Lebron imo but he is making a case every year he continues to play.

The real problem is that Lebron was too good and they won too many games so they had bad draft picks every year. The team tried some stuff with trades and FA, but just failed. If he had won a lot less in his first few years, they could have maybe had some top picks and had a good young core, but they didn't own their picks after his rookie year (which was Sean May at #13, so not like they missed out) and then every year after that they were drafting worse than #13, which means you gotta strike gold on an overlooked prospect, and they never did.
 
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The real problem is that Lebron was too good and they won too many games so they had bad draft picks every year. The team tried some stuff with trades and FA, but just failed. If he had won a lot less in his first few years, they could have maybe had some top picks and had a good young core, but they didn't own their picks after his rookie year (which was Sean May at #13, so not like they missed out) and then every year after that they were drafting worse than #13, which means you gotta strike gold on an overlooked prospect, and they never did.

MJ had similar problems with the Bulls and it took them awhile before it took off.

Honestly, I don't blame LJ but it is something he is always compared against Jordan with as Jordan is considered more "loyal" for sticking it out with the Bulls until they finally got Phil Jackson and surrounded him with a decent squad.
 
I thought Huff corrected you on that comment?

And besides, so what if he did? He was a teenager. Relax.
No correction, he leaned into it and still does to this day. It’s my right to dislike someone because I don’t like the way they do things. Just like it’s your right to slobber over an athlete because he calls himself the king. All hail the blind witnesses 🙇‍♂️
 
That doesn't make it self-proclaimed, smart guy.
Yes master, whatever you say. You know all and your “King” rules over all. I see you must be one of “The King’s” chosen disciples that bow before his every move. I guess you’re the smart guy, and I am nothing but a peasant. I’m sorry I didn’t worship him like I was commanded to do. All hail “The Chosen One” and his blind witnesses 🙇‍♂️
 

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