The Tiger Woods saga

#2,205
#2,205
1972 Grad said:
I don't disagree with anything you said. Tiger brought more people into the game, but most didn't stick with it, because it is much more difficult, and took much more time than they realized.

The number of golfers in the U.S. has settled back into the same numbers as pre-Tiger. In 1995, there were 24.7 million golfers who played, or went to practice facilities at least once per year. 16.6 million are considered "core golfers" because they play at least 8 rounds per year.

After growing to nearly 30 million golfers in the U.S. in 2008, participation has steadily gone down. We are now back to slightly less than 25 million, which is the same as 1995. So, I think that Tiger temporarily brought people into the game. Of course, the First Tee program has grown the game also. My point is that the game is where it was pre-Tiger, as far as participation goes. It doesn't seem like the "buzz" that he generated lasted.

Undoubtedly, people like doozer and volfan turn on the tv to watch their Tiger play, and probably sit it out when he doesn't, but I don't consider people like that as true golf fans. They are idol worshippers.
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Good post. 100% agree. The game of golf has always been bigger than generational stars. The core golfers know this. I could care less if Tiger ever plays another round or not and hated the bias in the media for him. As you correctly pointed out it did no long term good for the social justice warriors to ride that horse when he was obviously a highly flawed human being. When his world crashed, the bandwagon fans and Tiger inspired casual golfers declined down to what we see today.

IMO what Tiger did revolutionize were golfers as athletes. He inspired many of his competitors to get in better physical condition, work on their mental approaches, and work on their techniques. To me that was the long term benefit of Tiger. There wasn't near the level of quality competition as there is today. A lot of out of shape guys won. He helped that and you don't see it happening now. But he can no more compete with these young guns than could the 40 somethings compete with him in his prime. His body and mental approach are shot. He is too muscled for that stiff back to turn properly. His posture is off and he cannot remain on plane. Now when his head goes down in preparation for the front leg spring - there is no spring because his back is stiff and straight. He's a hot mess now.
 
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#2,206
#2,206
Vols4us said:
Good post. 100% agree. The game of golf has always been bigger than generational stars. The core golfers know this. I could care less if Tiger ever plays another round or not and hated the bias in the media for him. As you correctly pointed out it did no long term good for the social justice warriors to ride that horse when he was obviously a highly flawed human being. When his world crashed, the bandwagon fans and Tiger inspired casual golfers declined down to what we see today.

IMO what Tiger did revolutionize were golfers as athletes. He inspired many of his competitors to get in better physical condition, work on their mental approaches, and work on their techniques. To me that was the long term benefit of Tiger. There wasn't near the level of quality competition as there is today. A lot of out of shape guys won. He helped that and you don't see it happening now. But he can no more compete with these young guns than could the 40 somethings compete with him in his prime. His body and mental approach are shot. He is too muscled for that stiff back to turn properly. His posture is off and he cannot remain on plane. Now when his head goes down in preparation for the front leg spring - there is no spring because his back is stiff and straight. He's a hot mess now.
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Read what fellow pro Pat Perez said about Tiger today. It is in line with what I have been saying, and getting blasted for by a couple of people on here. I'm sure it's on pgatour.com of thegolfchannel.com.
 
#2,207
#2,207
Vols4us said:
Good post. 100% agree. The game of golf has always been bigger than generational stars. The core golfers know this. I could care less if Tiger ever plays another round or not and hated the bias in the media for him. As you correctly pointed out it did no long term good for the social justice warriors to ride that horse when he was obviously a highly flawed human being. When his world crashed, the bandwagon fans and Tiger inspired casual golfers declined down to what we see today.

IMO what Tiger did revolutionize were golfers as athletes. He inspired many of his competitors to get in better physical condition, work on their mental approaches, and work on their techniques. To me that was the long term benefit of Tiger. There wasn't near the level of quality competition as there is today. A lot of out of shape guys won. He helped that and you don't see it happening now. But he can no more compete with these young guns than could the 40 somethings compete with him in his prime. His body and mental approach are shot. He is too muscled for that stiff back to turn properly. His posture is off and he cannot remain on plane. Now when his head goes down in preparation for the front leg spring - there is no spring because his back is stiff and straight. He's a hot mess now.
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I agree with a lot of that. 40 year olds with injury issues have never fared well on tour and we may never see Tiger get back inside the top 100 much less winning again.

I disagree though about the level of competition. Tiger had plenty of contemporaries that would fare just fine now.
 
#2,208
#2,208
1972 Grad said:
Read what fellow pro Pat Perez said about Tiger today. It is in line with what I have been saying, and getting blasted for by a couple of people on here. I'm sure it's on pgatour.com of thegolfchannel.com.
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Perez didn't hold back, that's for sure
 
#2,209
#2,209
GAVol said:
I agree with a lot of that. 40 year olds with injury issues have never fared well on tour and we may never see Tiger get back inside the top 100 much less winning again.

I disagree though about the level of competition. Tiger had plenty of contemporaries that would fare just fine now.
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Tiger's career lasted 15 years, and his main contemporaries , although most a little older, were Phil, Ernie, Vijay, Padraig, Love, Sergio, and Duval, unless I'm forgetting someone. All of those guys put together probably have about as many majors as Tiger. Of course, Tiger averaging 1 a year takes away one fourth of the chances during those years.

Norman, Faldo, Seve, and other top players were gone or on the way out when Tiger arrived. Out of all the contemporaries, the one whose major wins was most affected would have to be Ernie. The rest of them wouldn't have won that many more anyway.

Els was flat out derailed by Tiger. He would be thought of as one of the very best ever with no Tiger. He is still held in high regard, but not like he would have been. Phil didn't learn how to win them until later in his career.
 
#2,210
#2,210
Jason Day, Rory, Fowler, Stenson, D.J., and Spieth have all come along too late to have been competition for Tiger. Even though Stenson and Dustin Johnson have been around a few years, they are just now learning how to win majors. I think Fowler will get there eventually.
 
#2,211
#2,211
1972 Grad said:
Read what fellow pro Pat Perez said about Tiger today. It is in line with what I have been saying, and getting blasted for by a couple of people on here. I'm sure it's on pgatour.com of thegolfchannel.com.
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Pat Perez el oh el. That guy wouldn't be allowed to clean Tiger's clubs. Has even finished top 10 in a major? Been top 25 on a money list or in world golf rankings? Dude can't make a name for himself on the course, so he uses his mouth of it. Tiger is his prime Sabbatinni'd clowns like this guy.
 
#2,212
#2,212
doozer said:
Pat Perez el oh el. That guy wouldn't be allowed to clean Tiger's clubs. Has even finished top 10 in a major? Been top 25 on a money list or in world golf rankings? Dude can't make a name for himself on the course, so he uses his mouth of it. Tiger is his prime Sabbatinni'd clowns like this guy.
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None of that means what he said was wrong.
 
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#2,214
#2,214
GAVol said:
There was some truth to it, but if you know anything about Pat Perez, it was just another eye roll moment.
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Some of it, yeah, but it's hard for me to disagree with some of it. Indicating he pulled out only because he was losing was silly and phrasing it that Woods knows "he can't beat anybody" was too, but the rest IMO is probably pretty spot on.
 
#2,215
#2,215
VolsSportsFan said:
Some of it, yeah, but it's hard for me to disagree with some of it. Indicating he pulled out only because he was losing was silly and phrasing it that Woods knows "he can't beat anybody" was too, but the rest IMO is probably pretty spot on.
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Perez isn't dropping any kind of knowledge we haven't all already figured it. He's not offering any kind of insight or in depth look either. He's trying to get people to listen to his radio show, bottom line.
 
#2,216
#2,216
If I was a public figure I'd never say this, but I'm not so I will :D

What do y'all think the odds Tiger was juicing are? About 95%? The change in his physical appearance over the years and career trajectory/injury history have a lot of the hallmarks of a guy who was juicing. Probably not with anabolic steroids, but with HGH.
 
#2,217
#2,217
doozer said:
Perez isn't dropping any kind of knowledge we haven't all already figured it. He's not offering any kind of insight or in depth look either. He's trying to get people to listen to his radio show, bottom line.
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Ok......he still wasn't wrong about a lot of what he said.
 
#2,218
#2,218
VolsSportsFan said:
Some of it, yeah, but it's hard for me to disagree with some of it. Indicating he pulled out only because he was losing was silly and phrasing it that Woods knows "he can't beat anybody" was too, but the rest IMO is probably pretty spot on.
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That's the part I had trouble with. Pat Perez has no clue how Tiger feels. I really doubt Tiger flew 17 hrs to Dubai and then quit just because.
 
#2,219
#2,219
05_never_again said:
If I was a public figure I'd never say this, but I'm not so I will :D

What do y'all think the odds Tiger was juicing are? About 95%? The change in his physical appearance over the years and career trajectory/injury history have a lot of the hallmarks of a guy who was juicing. Probably not with anabolic steroids, but with HGH.
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It's possible but I never thought Woods got so big that it was obvious. But I'm not an expert on working out and muscle gain.

A guy like Barry Bonds, it was obvious he was juicing because he went from a stick to bursting out of his jersey and his head grew gigantic.
 
#2,220
#2,220
VolsSportsFan said:
It's possible but I never thought Woods got so big that it was obvious. But I'm not an expert on working out and muscle gain.

A guy like Barry Bonds, it was obvious he was juicing because he went from a stick to bursting out of his jersey and his head grew gigantic.
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He did get pretty big, especially for a golfer. But you're right, he never got Bonds or McGwire big. Never had that trademark huge head/neck.

Obviously Tiger's problems are mostly between his ears. It isn't surprising that mentally he is a shell of himself after what happened. However, for the last few years it has been physical problems that have kept him from competing, almost all soft tissue injuries, and that could be as a result of prolonged PED use. He was a known client of Anthony Galea, who got busted trying to smuggle HGH across the border from Canada.

There are guys who get hurt but most golfers, especially ones who are as good as he was, are able to compete physically well into their 40s. His body has just been completely broken for the last few years.
 
#2,221
#2,221
05_never_again said:
If I was a public figure I'd never say this, but I'm not so I will :D

What do y'all think the odds Tiger was juicing are? About 95%? The change in his physical appearance over the years and career trajectory/injury history have a lot of the hallmarks of a guy who was juicing. Probably not with anabolic steroids, but with HGH.
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That's what I have always thought. Maybe more like 99%. I went to baseball spring training last year, and couldn't help but notice A-Rod's lack of game and drop in size. Then he quit. I think that Tiger is suffering withdrawal from the juice.
 
#2,222
#2,222
1972 Grad said:
That's what I have always thought. Maybe more like 99%. I went to baseball spring training last year, and couldn't help but notice A-Rod's lack of game and drop in size. Then he quit. I think that Tiger is suffering withdrawal from the juice.
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Nobody defeats Father Time.
 
#2,224
#2,224
doozer said:
Nobody defeats Father Time.
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I think there are just a certain number of reps everybody gets before stuff starts to wear out. And the list of back and joint casualties is long. Jason Day and Rory McIlroy are still in their 20s and have already dealt with injuries.
 
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