The TP officially turns on Boehner

[therealUT]

let them open. Don't need proof.

But first time they have ties to a terrorist group or get caught spreading a dangerous agenda they are shut down.

Fair enough; should Christian Churches be shut down if a member of their community bombs an abortion clinic? murders and abortion doctor? preaches hate on a website? is found to be a member of the KKK?

 

[NEO]

Love how in the wake of all the crap going on this country the question for the tp guy always ends up ... but how do you feel about muslims.

maybe that is your main concern but it's not mine.

 

[NEO]

Fair enough; should Christian Churches be shut down if a member of their community bombs an abortion clinic? murders and abortion doctor? preaches hate on a website? is found to be a member of the KKK?

is the church backing him?

Your question is apples to oranges.

if a muslim goes rogue and kills a bunch of christians that is not their fault. if the place is in bed with a terrorist group and the leader is going around preaching anti-american propganda then yes it needs shut down.

same would go with a church. if a church was backed by the kkk it would need to go.

 

[NEO]

don't view that church that goes to funerals as a true church. they need to lose their tax rights and be deamed a political group.

westboro.

 

[therealUT]

is the church backing him?

Your question is apples to oranges.

if a muslim goes rogue and kills a bunch of christians that is not their fault. if the place is in bed with a terrorist group and the leader is going around preaching anti-american propganda then yes it needs shut down.

same would go with a church. if a church was backed by the kkk it would need to go.

So, it has to be that the leader of the Mosque, the Imam, is knowingly recruiting terrorists, right?

If a terrorist, unbeknownst to the Imam, participated on Friday ceremonies and then went out and bombed some building in Murfreesboro, the Mosque is not culpable in your eyes, correct?

 

[lawgator1]

Love how in the wake of all the crap going on this country the question for the tp guy always ends up ... but how do you feel about muslims.

maybe that is your main concern but it's not mine.

I think the question is whether it is for the typical TP member, even if not you, personally.

The question could just as easily be, how do you feel about DADT, DOMA, affirmative action, abortion, etc., etc.

I have actually changed my mind a bit and think that the big majority of the TP cares only about the fiscal conservatism and that of the others, fiscal conservatism is nonetheless a big issue.

But I think it fair to say that there are those who have hitched their own values-laden chest to the TP wagon and are hoping to find like-minded people within its ranks to join their own cause de celeb, even if not fiscal in nature.

 

[NEO]

So, it has to be that the leader of the Mosque, the Imam, is knowingly recruiting terrorists, right?

If a terrorist, unbeknownst to the Imam, participated on Friday ceremonies and then went out and bombed some building in Murfreesboro, the Mosque is not culpable in your eyes, correct?

Correct.

not their fault their is a loon in the room.

 

[NEO]

But I'm also going to be honest with you again all though you didn't ask me this.

Yes, i think the world ends in a religious war and the Muslims are the ones beheading the Christians and in control as spoke of in Revelations.

But we live in America and freedom is a right of all sides.

 

[lawgator1]

But I'm also going to be honest with you again all though you didn't ask me this.

Yes, i think the world ends in a religious war and the Muslims are the ones beheading the Christians and in control as spoke of in Revelations.

But we live in America and freedom is a right of all sides.

Holy Crikes !

 

[NEO]

I think the question is whether it is for the typical TP member, even if not you, personally.

The question could just as easily be, how do you feel about DADT, DOMA, affirmative action, abortion, etc., etc.

I have actually changed my mind a bit and think that the big majority of the TP cares only about the fiscal conservatism and that of the others, fiscal conservatism is nonetheless a big issue.

But I think it fair to say that there are those who have hitched their own values-laden chest to the TP wagon and are hoping to find like-minded people within its ranks to join their own cause de celeb, even if not fiscal in nature.

Affirmative action might have had its place at one time. Not now. Now it is just causing problems. Any business with a grain of worth hires the best candidate. If a gay, black women stepped through my doors and was the best choice I'd hire her. i care about money. Not the other crap.

I am anti-abortion but that is a religious belief not a political belief.

 

[sjt18]

Hermain Cain considers himself a Tea Party member, correct? He is certainly against Muslims in Murfreesboro building a Mosque.

So local zoning is now a national issue?

I think his position is that the people of that town have the right to zone their town.

I would disagree with the denial altogether. I would even disagree with it if there was a good chance that radicals were there. I am not "TP" per se but tend to end up defending their cause here... do I speak for everyone in the movement?

Christian culture is superior, right?

IMO there is direct and tangible proof that it is. Has someone proposed legislation that would make that stance law?

While it might not be the Official Stance of the Tea Party, it sure is advanced by the biggest political leaders and advocates connected to the movement. Has the Tea Party officially made any effort to distance the movement from these individuals?

The TP isn't an organized party. It is a movement. How do you officially distance yourself unless you have a recognized, singular governing body?

 

[NEO]

Holy Crikes !

It's the belief of many christians. but it doesn't change the fact that the law allows freedom to assemble and freedom to worship and the bible clearly states that the law of the country we live in matters.

 

[therealUT]

Yes, i think the world ends in a religious war and the Muslims are the ones beheading the Christians and in control as spoke of in Revelations.

So local zoning is now a national issue?

I think his position is that the people of that town have the right to zone their town.

Holy Crikes !

.

 

[sjt18]

We are not even that large of a group.
.

Not true. The TP is VERY large for its type of movement. If a leftist group had come out in those numbers, the MSM would have declared it a direction changing event for the country rather than minimizing or marginalizing it.

What you see here is mostly the effectiveness of Progressives (establishment GOP, Dems, MSM, academia, etc) in demonizing the movement to folks who would otherwise be on board with the fiscal conservatism that STILL makes up the primary thrust of the TP.

 

[NEO]

Not true. The TP is VERY large for its type of movement. If a leftist group had come out in those numbers, the MSM would have declared it a direction changing event for the country rather than minimizing or marginalizing it.

What you see here is mostly the effectiveness of Progressives (establishment GOP, Dems, MSM, academia, etc) in demonizing the movement to folks who would otherwise be on board with the fiscal conservatism that STILL makes up the primary thrust of the TP.

I like people thinking we're small. It makes the fringe part that much more fun.

 

[CSVol]

Hey Neocon: I think gs has your password.

 

[sjt18]

The question could just as easily be, how do you feel about...

DADT

The military has always been unique in that moral standards must be affirmed and regulated. It is up for debate as to what those standards should be. IMHO, policies against homosexuality, adultery, gross promiscuity, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, and other things fall under the scope of good order and discipline. What applies to the military however does not apply to the population at large... and I am NOT nor do I wish to be an autocrat on the issue. If the majority thinks differently... then we go with that.

DOMA,

Oppose. The federal gov't has no jurisdiction in state licensing laws.

affirmative action,

Oppose. Institutional discrimination is wrong. Until we insist that we are all viewed as equals under the law... we won't be. If gov't can favor any group then that simply establishes the legitimacy of favoring a different group with the political tides shift.

abortion,

Oppose. The rights of one person end at the tip of another person's nose and there is a legitimate priority of rights.... with life sitting at the tip top.

The woman's right to "choose" was exercised when she chose risky behavior. Having exercised that right with consequences that weren't desired... does not render a "super" right to kill someone else.

However the legal issue here that should be democratically determined is at what point we recognize life from a legal standpoint. Again, I may not agree with the standard but having a standard allows us to have consistent law and rule of law. I don't know where the American people would come down but I suspect it would be sometime after the first month but before the third trimester.

I have actually changed my mind a bit and think that the big majority of the TP cares only about the fiscal conservatism and that of the others, fiscal conservatism is nonetheless a big issue.

Fiscal conservatism IS the glue. There may be social elements but the opinions there are varied.

 

[NEO]

Hey Neocon: I think gs has your password.

Any christian who has read the bible understands there is a struggle between the jewish (and christian) people and the muslim people going back to Abraham.

Both religiouns date the beginning of the Islam as Abraham.

Both pretty much write the same end game. The books are very similar in nature but from different angles in the room.

Revelations speaks of beheadings and since this is the hip things to do in the 'fringe" muslim movement it leads to speculation that it would be the muslims who do it.

 

[sjt18]

Do you think gay people can be "fixed" by Bachmann's husband, NEO?

Homosexuals who have desired to change have been helped by organizations to change. I do not know any of the particulars about Bachmann's methods.... but homosexuals HAVE successfully changed. If that is their desire... I am not sure why you all would object to their finding help with it.

 

[sjt18]

Any christian who has read the bible understands there is a struggle between the jewish (and christian) people and the muslim people going back to Abraham.

Both religiouns date the beginning of the Islam as Abraham.

I do not know who you are listening to... but you need to find someone else.

The Bible says that the arab nations originated with Abraham. That is affirmed by both Muslims and Christians. Islam began with Mohammad sometime around 700 AD.

The struggle between Arabs and Jews relates to Abraham for sure. It is central to their argument over who God designated the "Promised Land" for. However Islam is nowhere near as old as this fight.

 

[NEO]

I think his point is more about "do we TP members fill the need to do a clockwork orange and try to fix them."

i believe that is the job of the church or some other group. Not a politician.

 

[NEO]

I do not know who you are listening to... but you need to find someone else.

The Bible says that the arab nations originated with Abraham. That is affirmed by both Muslims and Christians. Islam began with Mohammad sometime around 700 AD.

The struggle between Arabs and Jews relates to Abraham for sure. It is central to their argument over who God designated the "Promised Land" for.

You said the exact same thing I just said.

You date islam back to abraham because that is when the arab nation came into existance. Didn't realize I had to make it clearer.

I date jesus back to the before his birth because god existed.

We on the same page now?

 

[NEO]

if Abraham had of waited and not had ishmael the islamic religion would have never come into existance because there would be no line to produce it.

This is why i say it started with him.

millat Ibrahim

 

[sjt18]

You said the exact same thing I just said.

You date islam back to abraham because that is when the arab nation came into existance. Didn't realize I had to make it clearer.

Islam is not synonomous with Arab. The Arabic tribes came long before Islam. The had completely different religious traditions prior to being "converted" by the Sword of Mohammad.

I date jesus back to the before his birth because god existed.

We on the same page now?

I am not trying to bust your chops. You just have to be very technically correct when talking with some of these guys. Among ethnic/racial Arabs today, you will find Muslims, Christians, and even Jews. Islam does not date back to Abraham. Mohammad and other teachers after him capitalized on Arab claims and jealousy against Jews.

 

[therealUT]

Islam is not synonomous with Arab. The Arabic tribes came long before Islam. The had completely different religious traditions prior to being "converted" by the Sword of Mohammad.

Do you only use "conversion by the sword" when you speak of Islam? Plenty of Christians were converted through violent coercion, as well.

It seems as though every time you mention Islam, you do so in a way in which you deride it and act as though Christianity is somehow above Islam. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism all have their skeletons, their hatred, and their violence to account for; none of these communities are innocent of mass atrocities against humanity.