The US & Our Silly Sanctions Threats

#101
#101
n_huffhines said:
That was one of the most embarrassing deflections I've ever seen in my life, and I've been on VN like 15 years.
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So you’re confused on what a military victory and political victory looks like too then huff?

This is merely the latest attempt at conflation of military battlefield and political policy results.
 
#102
#102
hndog609 said:
Winning a battlefield war is what, say, Patton was about. Ras seems to referencing what happens after with politics involved.
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He’s conflating military effectiveness and political/diplomatic effectiveness. It’s a common theme from him and the rest of the Putin propagandists now.
 
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#103
#103
utvolpj said:
Freedom and democracy is not a goal of a war. The goal is to decimate the opposing force. You cite ww2 yet the goal is that was never to bring freedom and democracy. Had we executed the other wars s we did in Europe or the pacific you would have seen the same kind of victory. Thankfully the wholesale slaughter of civilians fell out of favor
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You are saying the same thing I'm saying, so I'm not where the disagreement is. It's quite clear that after all of the bombing and destruction that we did in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan that we did not destroy the opposing armies.

My comment about freedom and democracy is the typical reasoning that we usually throw out to justify our military actions whenever we jump in and has now become more of a meme than a realistic (or desired) military objective.
 
#104
#104
NorthDallas40 said:
So you’re confused on what a military victory and political victory looks like too then huff?

This is merely the latest attempt at conflation of military battlefield and political policy results.
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"War is just politics by other means" - VC

You can win every battle fought and still lose the war if you don't have a plan for after the bullets stop flying.
 
#105
#105
utvolpj said:
R

Ras claimed the us had been beaten on the battlefield every time since ww2. That simply isn't true
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Go back and read my points again. I'm focusing on the original political objectives and the final results of the military actions. I'm not necessarily talking about battlefield supremacy. I even agreed with you that we know how to break stuff.

Rasputin_Vol said:
What am I mistaken about? What war or conflict have we been on the winning side of in your lifetime besides Grenada and our invasion of Panama?
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Rasputin_Vol said:
Just keep in mind, he couldn't name one war we were on the winning side of since WWII. He just went into his typical ad hominem attacks.
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#106
#106
hog88 said:
"War is just politics by other means" - VC

You can win every battle fought and still lose the war if you don't have a plan for after the bullets stop flying.
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I do not disagree one bit. You can’t kill an ideology. If the stooge collective would just focus on that instead of the continual stupid conflation I’d guess there is minimal disagreement
 
#107
#107
Rasputin_Vol said:
Go back and read my points again. I'm focusing on the original political objectives and the final results of the military actions. I'm not talking about battlefield supremacy. I even agreed with you that we know how to break stuff.
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You specifically stated the US military was defeated on the battlefield you deflecting pedantic stooge.
 
#108
#108
Rasputin_Vol said:
You are saying the same thing I'm saying, so I'm not where the disagreement is. It's quite clear that after all of the bombing and destruction that we did in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan that we did not destroy the opposing armies.

My comment about freedom and democracy is the typical reasoning that we usually throw out to justify our military actions whenever we jump in and has now become more of a meme than a realistic (or desired) military objective.
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We completely destroyed the NK army but MacArthur's arrogance wouldn't let him believe the Chinese would get involved and once they did get into the war Truman was afraid of the Russians if we pushed past the 38th.
 
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#109
#109
hog88 said:
We completely destroyed the NK army but MacArthur's arrogance wouldn't let him believe the Chinese would get involved and once they did get into the war Truman was afraid of the Russians if we pushed past the 38th.
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Even after the Chinese push once we got back in at Inchon we were back to destroying all comers but the landscape for escalation had changed dramatically.
 
#110
#110
hog88 said:
We completely destroyed the NK army but MacArthur's arrogance wouldn't let him believe the Chinese would get involved and once they did get into the war Truman was afraid of the Russians if we pushed past the 38th.
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What happened when the Chinese jumped in? That is just as much part of the conflict as anything else, so why dismiss Chinese involvement? That should have been a consideration before we got involved.

MacArthur was so nutty that he threw out the idea of using nukes in Korea. Filthy human being as far as I'm concerned... no better than Patton.
 
#112
#112
Rasputin_Vol said:
What happened when the Chinese jumped in? That is just as much part of the conflict as anything else, so why dismiss Chinese involvement? That should have been a consideration before we got involved.

MacArthur was so nutty that he threw out the idea of using nukes in Korea. Filthy human being as far as I'm concerned... no better than Patton.
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We took it on the chin when the Chinese crossed the Yalu because we were overextended and not prepared because MacCarthur refused to believe they would. But we regrouped and were pushing them back, could have pushed them back into China had Truman not been scared Russia would get involved.

Patton was right, we should have rearmed/refitted the Germans and turned them around on the Russians.
 
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#115
#115
hog88 said:
Patton was right, we should have rearmed/refitted the Germans and turned them around on the Russians.
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I have mixed feelings about that. But, if that is a justifiable action to have taken, then the same could have been said about the Japanese and sending them back into China after 1948.
 
#116
#116
Rasputin_Vol said:
I have mixed feelings about that. But, if that is a justifiable action to have taken, then the same could have been said about the Japanese and sending them back into China after 1948.
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A good argument could be made that we should have stomped out communism at the end of the war.
 
#117
#117
hog88 said:
A good argument could be made that we should have stomped out communism at the end of the war.
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I hear what you are saying. But I also have the ability to look in the past and see what the US was offering as an alternative. And based on what I've seen in Iran (1953), Guatemala (1954), Congo (1960), Chile (19730 and various other incidents, I'm not so sure the American alternative would have been any better. America has done so very wicked things since WWII. Sorry to tell you this, but not sorry at the same time.
 
#118
#118
Rasputin_Vol said:
I hear what you are saying. But I also have the ability to look in the past and see what the US was offering as an alternative. And based on what I've seen in Iran (1953), Guatemala (1954), Congo (1960), Chile (19730 and various other incidents, I'm not so sure the American alternative would have been any better. America has done so very wicked things since WWII. Sorry to tell you this, but not sorry at the same time.
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The US and USSR were equally guilty of wicked things around the globe.
 
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#119
#119
hog88 said:
The US and USSR were equally guilty of wicked things around the globe.
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Possibly. Although it is interesting that today, the countries that the USSR was involved with back then still remember and appreciate their assistance and are still standing with them today during these times. I'm not sure I see that same level of support outside of Europe for the US on the other hand.
 
#121
#121
Rasputin_Vol said:
Possibly. Although it is interesting that today, the countries that the USSR was involved with back then still remember and appreciate their assistance and are still standing with them today during these times. I'm not sure I see that same level of support outside of Europe for the US on the other hand.
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WTF? Who are these countries?
 
#123
#123
hog88 said:
WTF? Who are these countries?
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Sergey Lavrov went on a world tour all summer and was treated like a rock star in Africa and Asia. Meanwhile, Antony Blinken and Linda Thomas-Greenfield can't even get cold glass of water from these same regions. We don't have diplomats nor do we practice diplomacy. We just issue mandates, impose sanctions and attack our (so-called) allies.
 
#124
#124
#125
#125
Rasputin_Vol said:
Sergey Lavrov went on a world tour all summer and was treated like a rock star in Africa and Asia. Meanwhile, Antony Blinken and Linda Thomas-Greenfield can't even get cold glass of water from these same regions. We don't have diplomats nor do we practice diplomacy. We just issue mandates, impose sanctions and attack our (so-called) allies.
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LOL I don't know which Asian countries you are referring to but I wouldn't consider any of the African countries strong allies.
 
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