The you don't want to get involved in this discussion thread (split)

#601
#601
Ron Swanson said:
It's about human beings wanting to have equal rights and be accepted as equals. Many of the things said on this topic were also said during the civil rights movement. Not too long ago black people were 2nd class citizens just like gay people are today. Why is that so hard to understand?

I can hear it now, "I wish these blacks didn't shove their blackness in our faces all the time!" - many people in the 1960's.
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Comparing homosexual's struggles to African American's struggles is one of the most ridiculous things that have been posted in this thread.
 
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#602
#602
VOLout8 said:
Comparing homosexual's struggles to African American's struggles is one of the most ridiculous things that have been posted in this thread.
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Obviously the scale is nowhere near the same for each, but failing to see any similarity is just burying your head in the sand. Both are a subset of American citizens afforded fewer rights. Both are persecuted for something they did not consciously choose that doesn't harm anyone. The persecution of both is/was based on Christian beliefs.

An injustice shouldn't have to reach the scale of American slavery of blacks for it to be addressed.
 
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#603
#603
DoolaidDrinker said:
Using grade school knowledge of genetics and evolution is only going to prove you know nothing about how genes really work.
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And yet I here I sit. On a message board. I've been told to post a link. I've been told to study epigenetics. I've been told to get out of grade school and to get a real textbook.

I've been told not to talk about cave men and to ignore evolutionary theory's impact on the "born gay" assertion. It's even been suggested (I think) that it makes sense that people are born gay because we now have the technology to allow them to artificially inseminate each other.

Does anyone here care to refute the empirical mathematical evidence I've stated?
 
#604
#604
Aerie Vol said:
I did not, but I have researched it at the prompting of your question.

Please answer me directly: are you stating that the 5-10% of the US population which is currently estimated to be gay are all genetically identical to their heterosexual parents but have ALL undergone epigenetic mutation causing them to be gay?

Seriously? Epigenetic mutation at that high of a percentage rate? We're doomed if our DNA has lost that much control over our traits.
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reading a wikipedia page for 5 min isn't going to help you, man. change is gradual and is not caused by one factor. progressive social perspectives have made it more comfortable for gays to express their true feelings (e.g. DOMA reversal by SCOTUS, etc.). this trait has been along for a long time. Neanderthals, and, later, homo sapiens engaged regularly in homosexual relationships.
 
#605
#605
VOLout8 said:
Comparing homosexual's struggles to African American's struggles is one of the most ridiculous things that have been posted in this thread.
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S/he isn't comparing the struggles, but the logic of people criticizing the equality of both parties based on what are increasingly considered outdated moralities in a society founded upon a negative social contractual arrangement in which rights are denied only if they give the power to harm others and in which rights are explicitly not denied on the basis of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation.

Anyone who watched that interview and came away anything other than being blown away with his class and personal story ought to take a serious look at what issues they consider to be important in how they value their fellow human beings. I can't speak for how he'll project as a draft pick, but he certainly will do quite well in his interviews at the combine.
 
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#606
#606
It's astounding that a book that has survived thousands of years, never been proved false, give details (cities, times, kings, ect.), is outdated and useless compared to our modern thinking. Many modern thought processes have come and gone in the past 2000 years, and the Bible has remained. Long after your life it will still remain. Today's culture won't change that either. Rulers couldn't during the reformation.

Man ruins everything it touches. Even the Greeks understood this. Some of our world wonders were slavery, marginalizing women, and abortion. The answer to lives questions are not in our mental capacity. The smartest man on this board has no control over his intelligence, strength, or future. Just the facts.
 
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#607
#607
VOLout8 said:
Comparing homosexual's struggles to African American's struggles is one of the most ridiculous things that have been posted in this thread.
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You clearly haven't read this thread then. Some posters in here actually think we're destined to burn in "hell" if we don't believe some book that they believe and they're comparing homosexuality to child molestation and beastiality. No, seriously. I know, it's crazy!!!
 
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#608
#608
VOLout8 said:
It's astounding that a book that has survived thousands of years, never been proved false, give details (cities, times, kings, ect.), is outdated and useless compared to our modern thinking. Many modern thought processes have come and gone in the past 2000 years, and the Bible has remained. Long after your life it will still remain. Today's culture won't change that either. Rulers couldn't during the reformation.

Man ruins everything it touches. Even the Greeks understood this. Some of our world wonders were slavery, marginalizing women, and abortion. The answer to lives questions are not in our mental capacity. The smartest man on this board has no control over his intelligence, strength, or future. Just the facts.
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I'm sure other religions would say the same of their sacred texts too.
 
#609
#609
we have a biochemical need to get an erection and spill seed. that is our impulse. the female vagina is merely an instrument for that. somewhere along the line, we realized that depository=another life!
 
#610
#610
Atathakr said:
S/he isn't comparing the struggles, but the logic of people criticizing the equality of both parties based on what are increasingly considered outdated moralities in a society founded upon a negative social contractual arrangement in which rights are denied only if they give the power to harm others and in which rights are explicitly not denied on the basis of race, creed, gender, or sexual orientation.

Anyone who watched that interview and came away anything other than being blown away with his class and personal story ought to take a serious look at what issues they consider to be important in how they value their fellow human beings.
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The logic isn't even in the ball park. You are black so come work in my field and I will kill you if you don't. You are worthless and my property. If you don't like then I will take your life.

Not sure that is close to, I can't stand seeing gay people paraded on tv.

Homosexuality is a trendy thing. Being black never was trendy. Saying they are even close discredits the great accomplishments African Americans made.
 
#612
#612
VOLout8 said:
It's astounding that a book that has survived thousands of years, never been proved false, give details (cities, times, kings, ect.), is outdated and useless compared to our modern thinking. Many modern thought processes have come and gone in the past 2000 years, and the Bible has remained. Long after your life it will still remain. Today's culture won't change that either. Rulers couldn't during the reformation.

Man ruins everything it touches. Even the Greeks understood this. Some of our world wonders were slavery, marginalizing women, and abortion. The answer to lives questions are not in our mental capacity. The smartest man on this board has no control over his intelligence, strength, or future. Just the facts.
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I don't believe the historical part has ever been questioned that much since it's not the true reason the book exists.
 
#613
#613
VOLout8 said:
It's astounding that a book that has survived thousands of years, never been proved false, give details (cities, times, kings, ect.), is outdated and useless compared to our modern thinking. Many modern thought processes have come and gone in the past 2000 years, and the Bible has remained. Long after your life it will still remain. Today's culture won't change that either. Rulers couldn't during the reformation.

Man ruins everything it touches. Even the Greeks understood this. Some of our world wonders were slavery, marginalizing women, and abortion. The answer to lives questions are not in our mental capacity. The smartest man on this board has no control over his intelligence, strength, or future. Just the facts.
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so we have no free will? how do you justify god ultimate judgment of us if we have no choice?
 
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#614
#614
VOLout8 said:
The logic isn't even in the ball park. You are black so come work in my field and I will kill you if you don't. You are worthless and my property. If you don't like then I will take your life.

Not sure that is close to, I can't stand seeing gay people paraded on tv.

Homosexuality is a trendy thing. Being black never was trendy. Saying they are even close discredits the great accomplishments African Americans made.
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I'm sure the openly gay teens bullied to the point of suicide or murdered because of their sexual orientation went through the hell they did because it was trendy. Or the ones who came out to their families knowing everyone they loved would abandon them. Sounds pretty trendy to me.
 
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#615
#615
VOLout8 said:
The logic isn't even in the ball park. You are black so come work in my field and I will kill you if you don't. You are worthless and my property. If you don't like then I will take your life.

Not sure that is close to, I can't stand seeing gay people paraded on tv.

Homosexuality is a trendy thing. Being black never was trendy. Saying they are even close discredits the great accomplishments African Americans made.
Click to expand...

homosexuality is not trendy. it has been around since the dawn of the animal.
 
#616
#616
VOLout8 said:
The logic isn't even in the ball park. You are black so come work in my field and I will kill you if you don't. You are worthless and my property. If you don't like then I will take your life.

Not sure that is close to, I can't stand seeing gay people paraded on tv.

Homosexuality is a trendy thing. Being black never was trendy. Saying they are even close discredits the great accomplishments African Americans made.
Click to expand...


It's trendy? My goodness.
 
#617
#617
ellisjb0 said:
reading a wikipedia page for 5 min isn't going to help you, man. change is gradual and is not caused by one factor. progressive social perspectives have made it more comfortable for gays to express their true feelings (e.g. DOMA reversal by SCOTUS, etc.). this trait has been along for a long time. Neanderthals, and, later, homo sapiens engaged regularly in homosexual relationships.
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I appreciate the well-reasoned response. Could you posit a theory on why this "gradual change" is occurring? Also, is it your contention that homosexuals are present in other, let's say oppressive, cultures in equal percentages to here in the US, but remain silent to avoid persecution? Is the percentage of "born gay" people increasing, or are they just becoming more comfortable with going public?
 
#618
#618
Okay so here we go, I've read a lot of this forum and can see where both sides are coming from, but here is my stance. As a Christian I try my best to follow the bible. In the bible it says that homosexuality is wrong. I've been brought up my whole life believing that and still do. I think the hangup most people have is that they feel being gay is a worse sin than other sins, and that is simply not true. The bible says all sins are equal in God's eyes. So that means lying is just as bad as homosexuality. The difference is the repentance of the sin and moving away from that sin. I don't mean to clog up this forum but thought id try to share some insight
 
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#625
#625
Aerie Vol said:
And yet I here I sit. On a message board. I've been told to post a link. I've been told to study epigenetics. I've been told to get out of grade school and to get a real textbook.

I've been told not to talk about cave men and to ignore evolutionary theory's impact on the "born gay" assertion. It's even been suggested (I think) that it makes sense that people are born gay because we now have the technology to allow them to artificially inseminate each other.

Does anyone here care to refute the empirical mathematical evidence I've stated?
Click to expand...

I hardly call the use of punnett squares as empirical mathematical evidence for this argument. I'm not saying that people can or can not be born gay, but to assume that such a gene is merely a Mendelian trait is a poor way to argue your point.
 
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