There will be a reckoning.....count on it.

[volzfanz]

Pride in the athletics is why half of the non athletic students attend this university. You people make me sick. You think your the smartest people on earth and that all of us are the problem in this country. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror from time to time.

 

[volzfanz]

People like you make me weep for my state.

People like you don't ever surprise me.

 

[volzfanz]

You cant be a pompus prick and be duuuuuuuuude at the same time. Your gonna have to choose one or the other.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

The academic decathlon usually has lower ratings than SEC football.

People want to see a winner and, if Cheek is getting in the way of that by putting different standards on UT than the rest of the SEC, he needs to be shown the door.

It isn't about diminishing the importance of academics, it's about a level playing field.

 

[volzfanz]

The academic decathlon usually has lower ratings than SEC football.

People want to see a winner and, if Cheek is getting in the way of that by putting different standards on UT than the rest of the SEC, he needs to be shown the door.

It isn't about diminishing the importance of academics, it's about a level playing field.

Unbelievable. A reasonable person finally. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[Titleistvol]

don't hold your breath...

 

[duuuuuuuuuuuuude]

Well, volzfanz, aren't you a charming thing? I'll try to respond to you with the civility you didn't deign to show me.

Look, I graduated from the University of Tennessee -- twice. I'm a member of the class of '99 and saw Peyton play live and in person, and was there when the Vols won the national championship. Watching the Vols play -- not just football, but baseball, and men's and women's basketball -- was a major part of my college experience. I think athletics are an integral part of the University. I'm posting on a football message board, for God's sake, so I think it's safe to say that I'm not anti-athletics.

But when people start saying -- as you have -- that the Chancellor of the University ought to be fired because you don't like our new head coach, well, that's ridiculous. You're talking about the person who's responsible for UTK's eleven colleges, and the 28,000 students who are enrolled in them, and the thousands of faculty and staff who make the whole thing go. Our university system faces challenges that are more severe than it's ever faced: Over the last half-dozen years, our state legislature has cut tens of millions of dollars from the university's budget. The percentage of our state's population that has a college degree is significantly below the national average. Those are the things that I want my Chancellor to spend his time addressing, and his ability to tackle those issues are the reasons he ought to be hired, fired or retained.

So for you to suggest that the athletic side of the house ought to have the power to up-end all that, and fire the man with those responsibilities, is insane. It's the tail wagging the dog. You talk about the financial impact of football on the university -- but what about the financial impact of education on the state? I must have missed it when Boeing and BMW and Michelin said they were locating in South Carolina because of the Gamecocks. Yeah, football is awesome and contributes to the university, but don't ever confuse it with real life.

It's just not true that you can't have strong academics and successful athletics -- I listed a bunch of programs, public and private, that have done just that. Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion about where that line ought to be drawn, that's cool, and maybe I'll participate. But that's a different animal than saying that there ought to be "nuclear winter throughout the UT administration" because you don't like Butch Jones.

Now, you can respond to that like a decent human being, or you can continue name-calling. I know which one my money's on.

 

[BigOrangeCrush32]

Can we get this guy to deliver it?

I want that dang Jacket

 

[AshG]

Cheek can and has affected the athletic program from top to bottom through his influence on the university and academics. Schools that are committed to the highest academics are not committed to athletics and vice versa. UT will have to decide on one or the other and Cheek will be right in the middle of that and thus in danger of losing his job or conforming to something he doesnt believe in. Unless he truly powerful enough to reduce this university's commitment to excellence in athletics. We shall see sooner than later.

I absolutely, unequivocally, 100% disagree with this statement. Private schools such as Stanford and public institutions such as Michigan and Texas have pulled off the feat of combining quality athletics and cutthroat academics for years. I would dare say that it is possible for the two to increase the quality of each other. Winning teams bring focus on the university to out-of-state prospects who might otherwise not look into the programs offered. Quality academics, with properly managed and implemented student-athlete-centered programs, provide a nurturing environment that prepares athletes for the inevitable life that is to come after their entertainment value diminishes and their owners kick them to the curb; these programs have either high student-athlete graduation rates or offer opportunities for early-departing students to continue degree fulfillment at a later time.

I don't think UT is doing a good job of maintaining this balance right now, and would support a chancellor who would push for an increase in quality both in the classroom and on the field. I don't believe Cheek is that person.

edit/addendum: Duuuuuuuude, I missed your post prior to submitting mine; you said it far better than I could.

 

[CMcEver]

Well, volzfanz, aren't you a charming thing? I'll try to respond to you with the civility you didn't deign to show me.

Look, I graduated from the University of Tennessee -- twice. I'm a member of the class of '99 and saw Peyton play live and in person, and was there when the Vols won the national championship. Watching the Vols play -- not just football, but baseball, and men's and women's basketball -- was a major part of my college experience. I think athletics are an integral part of the University. I'm posting on a football message board, for God's sake, so I think it's safe to say that I'm not anti-athletics.

But when people start saying -- as you have -- that the Chancellor of the University ought to be fired because you don't like our new head coach, well, that's ridiculous. You're talking about the person who's responsible for UTK's eleven colleges, and the 28,000 students who are enrolled in them, and the thousands of faculty and staff who make the whole thing go. Our university system faces challenges that are more severe than it's ever faced: Over the last half-dozen years, our state legislature has cut tens of millions of dollars from the university's budget. The percentage of our state's population that has a college degree is significantly below the national average. Those are the things that I want my Chancellor to spend his time addressing, and his ability to tackle those issues are the reasons he ought to be hired, fired or retained.

So for you to suggest that the athletic side of the house ought to have the power to up-end all that, and fire the man with those responsibilities, is insane. It's the tail wagging the dog. You talk about the financial impact of football on the university -- but what about the financial impact of education on the state? I must have missed it when Boeing and BMW and Michelin said they were locating in South Carolina because of the Gamecocks. Yeah, football is awesome and contributes to the university, but don't ever confuse it with real life.

It's just not true that you can't have strong academics and successful athletics -- I listed a bunch of programs, public and private, that have done just that. Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion about where that line ought to be drawn, that's cool, and maybe I'll participate. But that's a different animal than saying that there ought to be "nuclear winter throughout the UT administration" because you don't like Butch Jones.

Now, you can respond to that like a decent human being, or you can continue name-calling. I know which one my money's on.

This is nothing against Butch Jones, he may very well be a great head coach, but it is a well known fact, the academic restrictions that our chancellor has put on this university puts us at a disadvantage to have some of the top athletes eligible to play. This applies to any coach, it is more difficult to get in some of the top athletes, that make this university competitive in athletics, than all but 1 university in the conference. A lot of coaches are scared away by this, its not saying Jones is going to fail, but he wasn't our first choice. I can understand helping academics to be a better research institution, but to make it an elite school by making admissions more difficult isn't the same thing.

 

[duuuuuuuuuuuuude]

This is nothing against Butch Jones, he may very well be a great head coach, but it is a well known fact, the academic restrictions that our chancellor has put on this university puts us at a disadvantage to have some of the top athletes eligible to play. This applies to any coach, it is more difficult to get in some of the top athletes, that make this university competitive in athletics, than all but 1 university in the conference. A lot of coaches are scared away by this, its not saying Jones is going to fail, but he wasn't our first choice. I can understand helping academics to be a better research institution, but to make it an elite school by making admissions more difficult isn't the same thing.

Hey, we can have a conversation about this, and it's a valid topic of discussion. But it's a completely different thing than saying, as you did, that UT shouldn't be trying to "attract top scholars from around the nation." Lots of public schools that have been extraordinarily successful in athletics (including at least one in our conference -- I'd name them but I hate to say anything nice about the Gators) are also leading academic institutions. They're not mutually exclusive, and if you care about the university (and I presume you do) then why would you be happy to let all the best and brightest go to Vandy? And on the flipside, why would you want every smart kid who's not from a family rich enough to send him to Vandy to have a second-rate education?

 

[CMcEver]

Hey, we can have a conversation about this, and it's a valid topic of discussion. But it's a completely different thing than saying, as you did, that UT shouldn't be trying to "attract top scholars from around the nation." Lots of public schools that have been extraordinarily successful in athletics (including at least one in our conference -- I'd name them but I hate to say anything nice about the Gators) are also leading academic institutions. They're not mutually exclusive, and if you care about the university (and I presume you do) then why would you be happy to let all the best and brightest go to Vandy? And on the flipside, why would you want every smart kid who's not from a family rich enough to send him to Vandy to have a second-rate education?

It isn't a second-rate education, by lowering the minimum standards to get into the university, does not make it a second-rate education... also by doing this, you do not effectively attract "top scholars", you just try to make this an "elite university" to be accepted to. What attracts those "top scholars", is having good academic programs in which you want to attract them, and these programs just lost $6 million a year, and possibly more had the AD been performing better, for the next 3 years because of this poor management that effectively ran a huge contributor(the AD) to their academic programs into the ground. I'm not bashing Jones, he took the job and wanted the job, I am blaming Jimmy Cheek for the current state of the program, though.

 

[Jeepster]

Well, volzfanz, aren't you a charming thing? I'll try to respond to you with the civility you didn't deign to show me.

Look, I graduated from the University of Tennessee -- twice. I'm a member of the class of '99 and saw Peyton play live and in person, and was there when the Vols won the national championship. Watching the Vols play -- not just football, but baseball, and men's and women's basketball -- was a major part of my college experience. I think athletics are an integral part of the University. I'm posting on a football message board, for God's sake, so I think it's safe to say that I'm not anti-athletics.

But when people start saying -- as you have -- that the Chancellor of the University ought to be fired because you don't like our new head coach, well, that's ridiculous. You're talking about the person who's responsible for UTK's eleven colleges, and the 28,000 students who are enrolled in them, and the thousands of faculty and staff who make the whole thing go. Our university system faces challenges that are more severe than it's ever faced: Over the last half-dozen years, our state legislature has cut tens of millions of dollars from the university's budget. The percentage of our state's population that has a college degree is significantly below the national average. Those are the things that I want my Chancellor to spend his time addressing, and his ability to tackle those issues are the reasons he ought to be hired, fired or retained.

So for you to suggest that the athletic side of the house ought to have the power to up-end all that, and fire the man with those responsibilities, is insane. It's the tail wagging the dog. You talk about the financial impact of football on the university -- but what about the financial impact of education on the state? I must have missed it when Boeing and BMW and Michelin said they were locating in South Carolina because of the Gamecocks. Yeah, football is awesome and contributes to the university, but don't ever confuse it with real life.

It's just not true that you can't have strong academics and successful athletics -- I listed a bunch of programs, public and private, that have done just that. Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion about where that line ought to be drawn, that's cool, and maybe I'll participate. But that's a different animal than saying that there ought to be "nuclear winter throughout the UT administration" because you don't like Butch Jones.

Now, you can respond to that like a decent human being, or you can continue name-calling. I know which one my money's on.

I respect your thoughts, but I think you have a funny definition of "real life." College football is a $2 Billion dollar industry. UT's annual revenue from football alone is > $120 Million. Ticket sales and donations make up roughly 60% of that total. It's expenditures were a few million above that (mostly due to the major Capital projects underway).

These aren't imaginary numbers and you can't wish them away because you don't consider football to be intrinsically valuable. Football, in the SEC and other FBS schools, is vital to each school's financial health and, in turn, it's academic health.

 

[markarm1960]

Bless your heart.

two thumbs up !

 

[USMCgng]

When the reckoning arrives will it be riding a Pale Horse? Go VOLS!!!

 

[Jeepster]

Nothing against Butch Jones. A couple of strong seasons, and you might see UT's revenues from ticket sales and donations increase and begin to chip away at our debt. But Dave Hart had (according to published reports) the chance to bring a level of instant excitement to UT football by hiring Jon Gruden that we haven't seen in years.
Instead of listening to the fans and boosters, Dave Hart made it clear very early on that the only opinion that mattered was his own. That's the reason he needs to go.

 

[duuuuuuuuuuuuude]

I respect your thoughts, but I think you have a funny definition of "real life." College football is a $2 Billion dollar industry. UT's annual revenue from football alone is > $120 Million. Ticket sales and donations make up roughly 60% of that total. It's expenditures were a few million above that (mostly due to the major Capital projects underway).

These aren't imaginary numbers and you can't wish them away because you don't consider football to be intrinsically valuable. Football, in the SEC and other FBS schools, is vital to each school's financial health and, in turn, it's academic health.

As you stated, that $120M revenue is gross, not net. The numbers I've seen say that the operating net in 2012 was something like $52M -- still not chump change, to be sure. As you pointed out, though, the facilities capital improvements had to be paid out of that, meaning that football program cost money rather than making money in 2012. And even though the team's poor performance certainly cost the university money, the biggest factor that put the football program in the red was paying for capital improvements -- the renovations to Neyland Stadium alone will cost $200M before it's all said and done, if you believe the KN-S, and that doesn't touch the tens (if not hundreds) of millions of dollars the University has spent on other athletic facilities. I assume (I'm too lazy to dig it up, but will happily be shown otherwise) that this wasn't financed out of cash, so the University will be making those colossal capital payments for probably 15 years. That means it will be a long time before the program makes money again.

But it's worth pointing out, too, the scope of the income UT football produces. The widely-cited $6M a year is a bunch of money, no doubt. But the University's budget this year is $1.93B. That means that that $6M comprised 0.3% of the University's annual budget. To say that the university would fold without football money just doesn't hold up. (And yes, I agree that I've oversimplified the contribution of athletics to the University. But people need to understand what they're saying when they say that football "carries the University.")

 

[DD4ME]

Sounds like several of you are validicktorians

 

[R Cannon]

I feel today all of my 35 yrs of memories Of Tenn Football has been tarnished. I was in the streets of New Orleans in 85 I was there when Bo said no more . Sat in the pouring rain just to scream for the vols never left a game early no matter the score. But on this day I must part and move on . I hope Jones does a great job but I will no longer support a school that will not put some effort in hiring a coach . I have bled orange since my first game in 77 vs Duke but I have nothing left . I was upset with the Dooley hire but I got over it and supported him till the end ,it was time for him to go . Good bye Vols and Volnation I will miss you !!

 

[duuuuuuuuuuuuude]

Sounds like several of you are validicktorians

Spoken like a true limpdicktorian.

 

[Red Forman]

I feel today all of my 35 yrs of memories Of Tenn Football has been tarnished. I was in the streets of New Orleans in 85 I was there when Bo said no more . Sat in the pouring rain just to scream for the vols never left a game early no matter the score. But on this day I must part and move on . I hope Jones does a great job but I will no longer support a school that will not put some effort in hiring a coach . I have bled orange since my first game in 77 vs Duke but I have nothing left . I was upset with the Dooley hire but I got over it and supported him till the end ,it was time for him to go . Good bye Vols and Volnation I will miss you !!

I hope you aren't waiting for us to throw you a pity party and beg you to stay.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

"O RLY?"

"That's news to us."

I don't know if you're aware of this, but the University does not exist for the purpose of fielding a football team. It exists to provide an education to the citizens of the State of Tennessee. That so many on this board have apparently chosen to forego that opportunity is as sad as it is obvious.

Then go to the education thread. I did my masters on the stanford graduation rate. Pretty impressive, yet I would bet that their rate has dropped with the current success.

 

[AshG]

I feel today all of my 35 yrs of memories Of Tenn Football has been tarnished. I was in the streets of New Orleans in 85 I was there when Bo said no more . Sat in the pouring rain just to scream for the vols never left a game early no matter the score. But on this day I must part and move on . I hope Jones does a great job but I will no longer support a school that will not put some effort in hiring a coach . I have bled orange since my first game in 77 vs Duke but I have nothing left . I was upset with the Dooley hire but I got over it and supported him till the end ,it was time for him to go . Good bye Vols and Volnation I will miss you !!

Don't let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.

And if, for some reason, you do decide to darken the doors of these forums with your presence again, I'd rather enjoy to hear a quantitative assessment of the search and hiring process; you apparently have some inside information as to the workload and intricacies involved in the search process in order to make the comment I bolded in the above quote of your post.

 

[Tennman73]

Given the importance of this hire, and the absolute s**t-storm it became in the national media, someone(s) career has ended. Who we hired isn't as important as how we hired him. Yes, we needed a homerun.....but maybe we can stretch a single into a double. The rumors of being close on Gruden, coupled with the look of desperation when Strong declined is gonna have heads rolling. I know the fanbase is crazy, but we don't deserve another "it could be worse" scenario. I would expect nuclear winter throughout the UT administration and some loyal heavy hitters to replace them.

There never was a Gruden!! Im so glad Strong and Gundy said no. Everything worked out and CBJ is the future.

Climb back into your Y2K bunker and we'll let you know when the season has started.

 

[duuuuuuuuuuuuude]

Then go to the education thread. I did my masters on the stanford graduation rate. Pretty impressive, yet I would bet that their rate has dropped with the current success.

Hey, I'm not the one who started taking about the academic side of the house in the coaching forum. Take it up with the OP.