There will be a reckoning.....count on it.

#77
#77
I will give our new Coach my full support, however Cheek, Martin and whoever else on the academic side that lead to this downfall need to be held accountable. If we want to compete in the SEC then we can't put ourselves at a disadvantage. If we are going to go that route then we need to change conferences.

As an alumni, I want the academic side to do well, but you don't improve our academics by setting unrealistic admission standards for student-athletes. All that will do is cause us to lose players to other SEC schools, as well as make it very hard for us to compete with everyone else.

It is in the entire University's best interests, the academic and the athletic sides, to see our football program succeed. We need to fire the Gator loving booger muncher and make ourselves competitive again.
 
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#78
#78
I think there might be a reckoning , It will be against the idiots that pushed the Gruden to UT rumors . Take that one however you wish .
 
#79
#79
volzfanz said:
Be careful on here. These people are serious about their academics.
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I was serious about it as well. It was my personal responsibility. I sat near Chris Mims and Steve Rivers during Political Science class. They weren't as serious about it.

Neither one would be considered shining lights of erudition. Mims spent most of his time drawing pictures of himself assaulting a quarterback (A key part of a defense that Slive would now suspend on a weekly basis for felonious battery on quarterbacks.). Rivers was as clueless in that class as he was on a basketball court. They weren't alone; there were some non-athletes in that class who made them both look like MENSA candidates.

Neither one's presence at the University of Tennessee damaged my ability to compete in the working world upon graduation. Neither one's presence did harm to the academic perception of Tennessee. Rivers and Mims were accepted on the basis of their particular talents as athletes; they met the standards set by the NCAA and the SEC for scholarship athletes.

This is the same way it worked at all other programs save Vanderbilt...and Vanderbilt was getting slaughtered pretending they could be Magnolia League during the week and SEC on the weekend.

Now Vandy is realistic and we are the ones now pretending we are in athletic competition with Emory and Sewanee. It is no surprise we're getting curb-stomped.

You can't expect to win consistently in this conference, draw the donations and ticket sales necessary to keep your athletic budget afloat, and attract/retain top level coaches with an admissions policy no one else in your conference follows.

The perception amongst these people that our university's academic reputation can be built upon the carcass of a limp athletic program is patently ridiculous. Doing so will not raise the coveted and all-important USN&WR ranking one level. But it will eventually force you to drop programs and seek public funding for athletics if the old balance is not restored.
 
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#80
#80
volzfanz said:
No energy left for you. Im sure you too enjoyed how all this was handled and you feel hart did an excellent job from beginning to end. Blah, blah, blah. Go to another thread and be a smarta**.
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I did like the hire Aristotle, so take your garbage and hateful diatribe somewhere else. Maybe 4chan or reddit, no shortage of idiots over there, u will fit in fin.
 
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#81
#81
Vol4LifeLCA said:
I will give our new Coach my full support, however Cheek, Martin and whoever else on the academic side that lead to this downfall need to be held accountable. If we want to compete in the SEC then we can't put ourselves at a disadvantage. If we are going to go that route then we need to change conferences.

As an alumni, I want the academic side to do well, but you don't improve our academics by setting unrealistic admission standards for student-athletes. All that will do is cause us to lose players to other SEC schools, as well as make it very hard for us to compete with everyone else.

It is in the entire University's best interests, the academic and the athletic sides, to see our football program succeed. We need to fire the Gator loving booger muncher and make ourselves competitive again.
Click to expand...

If we aren't willing to compete to the level of our SEC brethren, then Cheek should level with Tennessee's patrons (Former players, boosters, alums, and the great sidewalk fans whose support has made our tradition possible.) and admit we are merely here for the money instead of the glory.

We will have ceased to become competitor to enter a new and exciting age as the SEC's common whore. But at least someone in UT's academic administration will have come clean about their true ambitions.

Hart has made some mistakes. But I expect him to fight to give Butch Jones as much latitude to compete as Saban, Muschamp, Miles, and even Franklin have in this conference.

I just hope someone in power will listen and give our new coach a full opportunity to attract the athletes necessary to fulfill his mandate.
 
#82
#82
T.N. Buckingham said:
I was serious about it as well. It was my personal responsibility. I sat near Chris Mims and Steve Rivers during Political Science class. They weren't as serious about it.

Neither one would be considered shining lights of erudition. Mims spent most of his time drawing pictures of himself assaulting a quarterback (A key part of a defense that Slive would now suspend on a weekly basis for felonious battery on quarterbacks.). Rivers was as clueless in that class as he was on a basketball court. They weren't alone; there were some non-athletes in that class who made them both look like MENSA candidates.

Neither one's presence at the University of Tennessee damaged my ability to compete in the working world upon graduation. Neither one's presence did harm to the academic perception of Tennessee. Rivers and Mims were accepted on the basis of their particular talents as athletes; they met the standards set by the NCAA and the SEC for scholarship athletes.

This is the same way it worked at all other programs save Vanderbilt...and Vanderbilt was getting slaughtered pretending they could be Magnolia League during the week and SEC on the weekend.

Now Vandy is realistic and we are the ones now pretending we are in athletic competition with Emory and Sewanee. It is no surprise we're getting curb-stomped.

You can't expect to win consistently in this conference, draw the donations and ticket sales necessary to keep your athletic budget afloat, and attract/retain top level coaches with an admissions policy no one else in your conference follows.

The perception amongst these people that our university's academic reputation can be built upon the carcass of a limp athletic program is patently ridiculous. Doing so will not raise the coveted and all-important USN&WR ranking one level. But it will eventually force you to drop programs and seek public funding for athletics if the old balance is not restored.
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This.
 
#83
#83
T.N. Buckingham said:
Stanford is the only one out there who has had success doing things the way these Drake Group idiots want Tennessee to operate. They once turned down a football player with a 1380 SAT and a 3.6 GPA. I haven't seen anything like that before or since.

It pays to note, however, that Stanford is not the SEC and no one in this conference could operate as Stanford does and hope to have a prayer fielding a profitable athletics program.

Notre Dame is winning again in large part because they have gone back to student-athlete admissions standards as they existed under Lou Holtz and Dan Devine. Those admissions standards are considerably lower for student-athletes at NDU than they are for the student body as a whole.

Someone cited Florida as an example of a program with great athletics and academics. Florida is a fine university. No doubt about it. But people are extremely naive if they believe UF holds student-athletes to the same standards they set for non-athletes. It doesn't work that way for UF and it doesn't work that way in the SEC.

Even Vandy softened their position on this issue. James Franklin operates under the same standards now that George McIntyre enjoyed using the Peabody loophole to get kids in. Thus far, I haven't seen the latitude given to Franklin on this matter impact the reputation of Vanderbilt as an academic institution.

It doesn't make sense for people to believe that somehow making it more difficult for Tennessee to admit student-athletes will improve the general ability of our teams to compete, the reputation of their university as a whole, or the value of their degree in particular.
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This is a damn fine post, not many of these today. Throw in the discrepency between how UT handles JUCO players versus the other schools and I think we're done here. I too share the concerns regarding the Thornton Center as well as degree programs for at risk student athletes.

I share you view that the 25 or so football players admitted each year, don't have much of a bearing on the Universities overall ranking. Georgia has joined the top 25 this year along with UF. It IS possible to do both, AND without bleeding the AD dry. That's Hamilton, not Hart's fault, and they've worked it out in the short term.
 
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#85
#85
WhiteRhino said:
I did like the hire Aristotle, so take your garbage and hateful diatribe somewhere else. Maybe 4chan or reddit, no shortage of idiots over there, u will fit in fin.
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No true fan could be happy with being drug thru the mud in the nat'l media. A vol fan happy that we got rejected by an OSU coach and a UL coach. We were last to hire a coach and a laughing stock off the field to go with what happened on the field this yr.
Our admission standards for athletes is not the same as most other schools, thanks to an ex professor in denver who shall not be named. If spurrier threatened to quit SC over this then its obviously a problem. Its also a recruiting tool against us now and has in no way, shape, form or fashion made our athletes smarter or their degrees better.
 
#86
#86
I've enjoyed most of this thread. I think that UT should use the same standards for student athletes as the rest of the SEC. I think it would be very hard to make a pragmatic case for how these higher standards benefit the university in the long term.

That being said, everyone should want UT to be the best academic institution that it can be. When states have great universities, personal income, life expectancy, quality of living, etc. all go up. I don't get it when I see posters who don't want to see UT with a better academic reputation. I don't see any drawbacks, as long at UT continues to accept lots of in-state students (some of whom leave the state for "better" academic options) and serve its mission.

So, basically, do everything you can to make UT great and achieve the top 25 goal, but use the same standards as the rest of the conference for student athletes. It will help your football program, and therefore your financial situation, in the long run. Plus, as others have pointed out, Georgia and Florida have employed this strategy with great success.
 
#87
#87
We have a down program in the toughest conf in the country.
We have to recruit out of state, largely in FL, GA, LA, AL, and TX.
We make it harder to get athletes accepted and even harder still to keep them eligible while they put in all the hard work required to be competitive on the field.
We are expected to "donate" nearly twice as much money to academics as most other schools.
All that weighs on a coaches, and a recruits, decision to accept a position here.
These are major hurdles that have had a direct effect on our recent events.
Those in charge have a responsibility to everyone to make UT competitive, plain and simple.
You cant just keep hiring and firing coaches when the problems exist with the higher-ups.
 
#88
#88
duuuuuuuuuuuuude said:
"O RLY?"
121947-330-0.jpg


"That's news to us."
ncf_g_shaw_d1_576.jpg


I don't know if you're aware of this, but the University does not exist for the purpose of fielding a football team. It exists to provide an education to the citizens of the State of Tennessee. That so many on this board have apparently chosen to forego that opportunity is as sad as it is obvious.
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The point is that if a student athlete qualifies according to the NCAA and the SEC then he should be allowed to enroll in school and play football. The academia should help our student athletes be the best students they can be, the Thornton Center needs to return to its original purpose and the AD should be able to use the funds it generates to assist the Athletic Department first and foremost. Once these issues are resolved we can have a great University. No one that I know is suggesting that UT not provide the best quality education possible or that we lower standards but its my understanding that the academia have been less than helpful to the AD and our student athletes and in fact have been an impediment. Go Vols!
 
#89
#89
T.N. Buckingham said:
Stanford is the only one out there who has had success doing things the way these Drake Group idiots want Tennessee to operate. They once turned down a football player with a 1380 SAT and a 3.6 GPA. I haven't seen anything like that before or since.

It pays to note, however, that Stanford is not the SEC and no one in this conference could operate as Stanford does and hope to have a prayer fielding a profitable athletics program.

Notre Dame is winning again in large part because they have gone back to student-athlete admissions standards as they existed under Lou Holtz and Dan Devine. Those admissions standards are considerably lower for student-athletes at NDU than they are for the student body as a whole.

Someone cited Florida as an example of a program with great athletics and academics. Florida is a fine university. No doubt about it. But people are extremely naive if they believe UF holds student-athletes to the same standards they set for non-athletes. It doesn't work that way for UF and it doesn't work that way in the SEC.

Even Vandy softened their position on this issue. James Franklin operates under the same standards now that George McIntyre enjoyed using the Peabody loophole to get kids in. Thus far, I haven't seen the latitude given to Franklin on this matter impact the reputation of Vanderbilt as an academic institution.

It doesn't make sense for people to believe that somehow making it more difficult for Tennessee to admit student-athletes will improve the general ability of our teams to compete, the reputation of their university as a whole, or the value of their degree in particular.
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If I had the power to do so I would fire Cheek and appoint you immediately (assuming you would take the position). You may already have a better job. :)
 
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#90
#90
RESPONSE TO DUUUUUDE
Much different than the pompus a** prick who started talking on here as if you knew everything. The Thornton center is another subject altogether. For those who may not know much about this topic, Im including a link that will explain most everything. Including all the schools that supposedly hold to a higher academic standard as the duuuuuuude here says. Turns out you're no daisy.....you're no daisy at all.

NCAAF Report: Exemptions benefit athletes - ESPN
 
#93
#93
For everyone who's complained about UT's academic policies, I'd be interested in your answers to my earlier post. Thanks in advance.
duuuuuuuuuuuuude said:
What academic standard - specifically - do you find objectionable? Which point in the Drake Group's four-point plan do you think impeded our coaching search the most, and why? What do you think about the incident involving Linda Bensel-Myers, and what do you think UT's institutional response should have been?
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#94
#94
Lol. That hurt me. Think I woke our baby up. Im 40 yrs old and we have a new baby. Sigh............
 
#95
#95
Your anger is misdirected.

I believe one need look no further than the post of LWS when he stated that "big jim always wins." There is a definite thread of commonality that runs right up to the current future ex coach and I hope that pious sob enjoys every home game with the other 50k fans that will be in Neyland.
 
#96
#96
duuuuuuuuuuuuude said:
For everyone who's complained about UT's academic policies, I'd be interested in your answers to my earlier post. Thanks in advance.
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#1 . Why hold student athletes to a higher standard of admission when your competitors dont?

How can you not see that? (Im not yelling)
Its a drawback to a coach.
He cant recruit with the competition.
Translation - cant win

Drawback to a recruit.
Nick Saban informs a recruit about this.
Translation - recruit is afraid he cant get accepted to TN

Why gut a program that ensures your athletes remain eligible.
Most, if not all in SEC, schools have entire staffs to ensure that athletes remain eligible through whatever the NCAA deems acceptable.
Translation - recruit thinks he will flunk out at TN.
All this is over Bensel being pissed that athletes were special.

Lets be honest. Everyone knows that its mostly football players that need help. Admittedly they aren't all the smartest. But why put yourself at a decided disadvantage in the biggest arena of all which is college football. How does that help TN.
 
#97
#97
duuuuuuuuuuuuude said:
For everyone who's complained about UT's academic policies, I'd be interested in your answers to my earlier post. Thanks in advance.
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I'm not sure what you're driving at but most of the issues have been touched on in this thread. Honestly, as for Bensel-Meyers, she made a lot of allegations that were investigated by the school and the NCAA and were found to be baseless. The University should have fired her for the damage she caused however she was protected by the whistleblower statute and probably by the fear of litigation. She then complained about how badly she was treated after that. Imagine that after the damage she caused. I just assumed that she was one of the folks who was jealous of the notoriety of the football team and athletes in general because she was never picked for the kickball team as a kid when sides were chosen.
 
#98
#98
And honestly, what did she think was gonna happen by saying all that s**t. I dont thinl the NCAA ever even found any real violations did they?
She risked her life over something that wasn't even against the rules.
Who gives a s**t if football players want to major in urban studies or whatever? Would she have been happier with bus admin or comm or phys ed? I mean cmon we all know athletes get special priviledges. So does everyone whos the best at what they do.
 
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