There's not a penalty to harsh for PSU!

#451
#451
CountVolcula said:
Yes it is. New rules are made every day

30 years ago, there was no Sexual Harassment policies. Yet issues arose amd policy made

NCAA has ethics codes in place. Just because its never been an issue that has came up, doesn't mean that can't enforce them now
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It. is. not. the. NCAA's. job.

They aren't there to lay the banhammer on criminals. That should be the criminal justice system's jurisdiction.

This widespread hurry to burn down everyone and everything and seek revenge for who the hell knows what is why our society sucks, and part of the reason we ended up in f'ing Iraq, as big of a stretch as that sounds.
 
#452
#452
rockytop9808 said:
What NCAA violation did PSU commit- lack of institutional control? Looks like complete and total institutional control to me.

The NCAA has zero, no, notta business getting involved in any way with criminal cases like this. That is absolutely not the purpose of the organization, and giving the abortion that is the NCAA even more reach is beyond stupid, unless you'd like a program like Tennessee put on probation and given postseason bans for all of our Nu'keeses and Janzens.
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It's hard to comment on the first

WTF!!

So because they controlled the cover up means they had Institutional Control?

Crazy comment
 
#453
#453
CountVolcula said:
Yes it is. New rules are made every day

30 years ago, there was no Sexual Harassment policies. Yet issues arose amd policy made
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You cannot enforce new policies retroactively. The NCAA can't be confronted with a problem for which they have no rule, create a rule, and then punish the problem. The members must be made aware of the rule before they can be in violation of it.

NCAA has ethics codes in place. Just because its never been an issue that has came up, doesn't mean that can't enforce them now
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Those ethics codes are not actionable rules. That's why they aren't listed with the giant list of violations in the NCAA bylaws. And they have come up numerous times. For probably the 15th time: Baylor's coach covered up a murder and the NCAA didn't do anything about it.
 
#454
#454
CountVolcula said:
It's hard to comment on the first

WTF!!

So because they controlled the cover up means they had Institutional Control?

Crazy comment
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Yes, the institution had insane amounts of control to not let this get out for over a decade. What else would you call it? It's certainly not a lack of control.
 
#455
#455
rockytop9808 said:
It. is. not. the. NCAA's. job.

They aren't there to lay the banhammer on criminals. That should be the criminal justice system's jurisdiction.

This widespread hurry to burn down everyone and everything and seek revenge for who the hell knows what is why our society sucks, and part of the reason we ended up in f'ing Iraq, as big of a stretch as that sounds.
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Explanations have been made

Some just refuse to understand that NCAA is not upholding criminal law

They are going to punish a program that did not have checks and balances in place to prevent someone from having so much power that crimes could be hidden from the proper authorities
That is LOIC
 
#456
#456
CountVolcula said:
Explanations have been made

Some just refuse to understand that NCAA is not upholding criminal law

They are going to punish a program that did not have checks and balances in place to prevent someone from having so much power that crimes could be hidden from the proper authorities
That is LOIC
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Mr. NCAA President, is it a lack of institutional control or an ethics violation you have decided to punish PSU with (neither of which are applicable)?

Make up your damn mind.
 
#458
#458
CountVolcula said:
One leads to the other
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And you're going to use this flimsy stance to punish a load of people who had no involvement with the action? Pathetic. All the death penalty would do is serve the morons who like to see pure revenge played out.
 
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#459
#459
CountVolcula said:
They are going to punish a program that did not have checks and balances in place to prevent someone from having so much power that crimes could be hidden from the proper authorities
That is LOIC
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For the NCAA to find Lack of Institutional Control, they must first find that a violation was committed. Then, they must determine that the institution either knew, or should have known, about the violation and failed to prevent it, or that the institution's response to the violation was grossly inadequate.

So I ask you: what violation was committed that PSU failed to prevent, or to which they failed to adequately respond?
 
#460
#460
bamawriter said:
For the NCAA to find Lack of Institutional Control, they must first find that a violation was committed. Then, they must determine that the institution either knew, or should have known, about the violation and failed to prevent it, or that the institution's response to the violation was grossly inadequate.

So I ask you: what violation was committed that PSU failed to prevent, or to which they failed to adequately respond?
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SO

If Jerry Sandusky had given 50 dollars to a player, been observed by a grad assistant who reported it to Paterno who then reported it to the AD, and President. The coach, AD, President decide to keep it quiet - this is Lack of Institutional Control

BUT

Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a minor, observed by a grad assistant who reported it to Paterno who then reported it to the AD and President. The coach, AD, President decide to keep it quiet - this is not Lack of Institutional Control.
 
#461
#461
rockytop9808 said:
And you're going to use this flimsy stance to punish a load of people who had no involvement with the action? Pathetic. All the death penalty would do is serve the morons who like to see pure revenge played out.
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Are you forgetting children were molested? I mean to disagree is one thing but to say its pathetic? The football team controlled the university. No football team is bigger than the university and neither are more important than childrens safety. If the NCAA is going to set new rules or precedents and it saves one child, then i say go for it. I would rather all sports be given the death penalty if this is what it has come too. I appreciate kids well beings much more than a stupid game, and I love football.
 
#462
#462
OldandStillaVol said:
SO

If Jerry Sandusky had given 50 dollars to a player, been observed by a grad assistant who reported it to Paterno who then reported it to the AD, and President. The coach, AD, President decide to keep it quiet - this is Lack of Institutional Control

BUT

Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a minor, observed by a grad assistant who reported it to Paterno who then reported it to the AD and President. The coach, AD, President decide to keep it quiet - this is not Lack of Institutional Control.
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No, because the NCAA's job is to regulate sport, not to determine if the criminal justice system has done an adequate job handling crimes.

Why is this so hard for you blowhards to grasp? By the same token, why do you blowhards want to hammer a bunch of people with no involvement? You realize this pathetic white knight attempt at justice is only harming (injustly, I might add) people who weren't in on this?
 
#464
#464
knucklehead_vol said:
Are you forgetting children were molested? I mean to disagree is one thing but to say its pathetic? The football team controlled the university. No football team is bigger than the university and neither are more important than childrens safety. If the NCAA is going to set new rules or precedents and it saves one child, then i say go for it. I would rather all sports be given the death penalty if this is what it has come too. I appreciate kids well beings much more than a stupid game, and I love football.
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Does the justice system not do an adequate enough job for you? You want more punishment and more punishment and more punishment piled on?

This is what we call vengeance. Plain, open, embarrassing vengeance. Nearly everyone who was involved in the coverup is gone or facing criminal charges. You absolutely cannot justify blasting a bunch of college kids and their coaches who didn't participate in this act.
 
#465
#465
knucklehead_vol said:
Are you forgetting children were molested? I mean to disagree is one thing but to say its pathetic? The football team controlled the university. No football team is bigger than the university and neither are more important than childrens safety. If the NCAA is going to set new rules or precedents and it saves one child, then i say go for it. I would rather all sports be given the death penalty if this is what it has come too. I appreciate kids well beings much more than a stupid game, and I love football.
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getting into the "you don't care about the kids because youre not as outraged as I am/calling for the same punishment as me" thing never ends well.
 
#467
#467
bamawriter said:
For the NCAA to find Lack of Institutional Control, they must first find that a violation was committed. Then, they must determine that the institution either knew, or should have known, about the violation and failed to prevent it, or that the institution's response to the violation was grossly inadequate.

So I ask you: what violation was committed that PSU failed to prevent, or to which they failed to adequately respond?
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Most people believe that the NCAA sole purpose is to insure a level playing field for athletics. They do this by upholding NCAA rules on recruiting, paying of players, etc. However, the NCAA also has powers to insure that member organizations adhere to the policy and procedures set forth by the NCAA. Those member organizations agree to those policies and procedures once they become a member. No different than the structure of restricted covenants. You agree to certain terms before you can build/buy in a restricted covenant neighborhood

The NCAA has already asked 4 questions of Penn State in Emmerts letter to them

If you read them, Penn State as an institution failed in its structure to insure that members in charge acted both morally and ethically according to the NCAA bylaws. For 14 years, this was hidden to protect the FB program. Not to protect Sandusky. Not to protect the victims. That's all they need

They will find more once they begin digging

I'm sorry if that isn't clear
 
#468
#468
OldandStillaVol said:
You seem to be the only person blowing hard.
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It's not blowing hard when a person recognizes the lines drawn between systems and organizations in place. Besides, you've answered none of those questions.

Again, I'd rather not have a sporting organization deciding where the justice system has failed, and, once again, it makes no sense to punish those not involved. Unless you can convince me that hammering the athletes and coaches currently at the school is just, I will not change my stance.
 
#469
#469
milohimself said:
getting into the "you don't care about the kids because youre not as outraged as I am/calling for the same punishment as me" thing never ends well.
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It's a really sad approach, because the reasoning for blasting PSU is focused 100% on the fact that kids were involved.

If Penn State had a massive man-raping scandal nobody would give two rips.
 
#470
#470
I think all of us care about the victims. I can go either way on whether the football program should be suspended. What I can't agree with is that the responsibility of the institution stops with the criminal proceedings of the individuals.
 
#471
#471
OldandStillaVol said:
I think all of us care about the victims. I can go either way on whether the football program should be suspended. What I can't agree with is that the responsibility of the institution stops with the criminal proceedings of the individuals.
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What do people in power now share with the people who were in power, the Penn State name?

Institutions are made up of people. When the responsible people are gone, what sense does it make to punish the people who stepped into the mess to try to make things better?
 
#472
#472
rockytop9808 said:
It's not blowing hard when a person recognizes the lines drawn between systems and organizations in place. Besides, you've answered none of those questions.

Again, I'd rather not have a sporting organization deciding where the justice system has failed, and, once again, it makes no sense to punish those not involved. Unless you can convince me that hammering the athletes and coaches currently at the school is just, I will not change my stance.
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Were you for or against punishment to Miami and Ohio State? Would punishing those schools not hammer the athletes and coaches at the school who had no involvement in what the former coaches and players did?
 
#473
#473
rockytop9808 said:
It's a really sad approach, because the reasoning for blasting PSU is focused 100% on the fact that kids were involved.

If Penn State had a massive man-raping scandal nobody would give two rips.
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See this is where ignorance comes in. Rape is rape. And what makes it worse is it was kids. Your posts make me lean more towards the death penalty. But hey it was just kids right?
 
#474
#474
knucklehead_vol said:
Are you forgetting children were molested? I mean to disagree is one thing but to say its pathetic? The football team controlled the university. No football team is bigger than the university and neither are more important than childrens safety. If the NCAA is going to set new rules or precedents and it saves one child, then i say go for it. I would rather all sports be given the death penalty if this is what it has come too. I appreciate kids well beings much more than a stupid game, and I love football.
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Do you really see the NCAA as a child abuse prevention agency? I believe all of us appreciate kids over football. I don't believe that is the choice the NCAA faces.

Bear in mind, prison and financial liability weren't enough to protect the children in this case. The NCAA expanding its purview isn't going to deliver a better result.
 
#475
#475
rockytop9808 said:
It's a really sad approach, because the reasoning for blasting PSU is focused 100% on the fact that kids were involved.

If Penn State had a massive man-raping scandal nobody would give two rips.
Click to expand...

And apparently no one cared it was kids since it went on for so long.
 
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