They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

#326
#326
Vol8188 said:
The idea of the poor rising up against the rich is a Marxist idea. Perhaps you didn’t get it from Marx, but that doesn’t really change anything.

Sure better is a relative term but we can quantify it. They have more purchasing power than before, they have more amenities, etc.

What’s the advantage of all this wealth without income that you seem upset about? If I have a ton of wealth and no income, what have I gained?
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It is not a marxist idea. It is a historical fact that occurred many times throughout history long before Marx was born. So keep trying with your labeling, but you are still missing the target.

You can liquidate.
 
#327
#327
Vol8188 said:
I think it’s cute that you’ve read Marx. You should try reading some of the newer stuff, the NeoMarxist.

If you do you’ll see them disagreeing with you. Because what you’re not seeing is how well our poor and middle class live. They openly refer to the prosperity of the middle and lower classes as one of the things that holds American culture together.

But to be sure I understand your argument, in spite of the fact that the poor and middle class continue to do better than they have in previous decades, you believe they will rebel? Why? Why would a group of people who live better year after year than they did the previous year rebel?
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Having more stuff does not mean they are living better.
At it's core, living better means living happier, and happiness is greatly impacted by the level of perceived economic justice.
 
#331
#331
ClearwaterVol said:
It is not a marxist idea. It is a historical fact that occurred many times throughout history long before Marx was born. So keep trying with your labeling, but you are still missing the target.

You can liquidate.
Click to expand...

Okay and when I liquidate I’m taxed…so what’s the problem? I’m really not seeing it.

The poor and middle class every decade have an increased standard of living. Yet you believe at some point they’ll grow tired of living well because some live better?

You really should read some neomarxist literature some time. They openly address this and refer to how capitalism has stabilized the people and how they have to find a new group (no longer based in economics) to carry their revolutionary energy (cultural Marxism)
 
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#332
#332
luthervol said:
Having more stuff does not mean they are living better.
At it's core, living better means living happier, and happiness is greatly impacted by the level of perceived economic justice.
Click to expand...

That’s hilarious. So what you’re saying is if you can falsely convince people they’re worse off than they are (perceived vs actual) than you finally get your revolution?

I’ll give you props. It’s the first honest thing I’ve seen you say today. Admitting that the goal is to make the poor and middle class think they’re poorly when in fact they’re not
 
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#333
#333
SpaceCoastVol said:
LOL right Cochise. You are as transparent as they come in this regard.
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I’m still amazed at his ability to proclaim he’s proven me wrong about America having the most progressive tax system in the world. Then he provides the example of Sweden as being the most progressive, after agreeing last night it was less progressive.

Idk if the Sweds raised taxes during the middle of the night or what
 
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#334
#334
ClearwaterVol said:
Never read or at least I don't remember reading Marx. I simply look at history. Certainly don't believe in communism, but pure capitalism ain't the answer either.

Because better is a relative term. The wealthy are taking a larger and larger percentage of the pie each year. It becomes unacceptable after a period of time.
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The pie grows. It’s not fixed.

People who think otherwise simply do not understand basic economics and usually advocate for terrible ideas.
 
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#335
#335
Vol8188 said:
That’s hilarious. So what you’re saying is if you can falsely convince people they’re worse off than they are (perceived vs actual) than you finally get your revolution?

I’ll give you props. It’s the first honest thing I’ve seen you say today. Admitting that the goal is to make the poor and middle class think they’re poorly when in fact they’re not
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Good grief you are shallow.
Where is orangecrush by the way? I need to tell him I have found someone even more entrenched in Flatland.
 
#336
#336
VOLS INC. said:
The pie grows. It’s not fixed.

People who think otherwise simply do not understand basic economics and usually advocate for terrible ideas.
Click to expand...

That’s the second factor in argument we haven’t addressed. To believe wealth should be taxed or taxes should be increased because of wealth, you have to believe at least one if not both of these:

1. Wealth and income are the same or are at a minimum equally useful

2. Wealth is fixed and because others have a lot, it causes you to have less
 
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#337
#337
luthervol said:
Good grief you are shallow.
Where is orangecrush by the way? I need to tell him I have found someone even more entrenched in Flatland.
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I’m still waiting for you to respond about Sweden and admitted you were wrong.

So were you wrong when you said they have the most progressive taxes in the world or where you wrong when you said their system is less progressive than our own?
 
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#338
#338
Vol8188 said:
This seems to be a common left wing myth . LG recently claimed it’s the middle class who pay the majority of taxes in this country. That’s obviously 100% incorrect. If you look at the lower 1/3 of the middle class, they still receive more benefits than they pay in taxes.

It’s also well known that the lower class in this country does not pay taxes. When trying to sell my farm a few years ago a woman told me she would be able to get the down payment from her tax return and that the previous year she had only worked a couple of weeks and had received thousands back.

The 1% earns 20% of all income but pays 40% of the taxes in this country.

Where does this myth that the wealthy don’t pay taxes come from? Especially given that we have the most progressive taxes in the world. Can anyone back it up with data?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/12/10/middle-class-taxes/
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The number of worthless moochers and takers grows every year.

61% of Americans paid no federal income taxes in 2020, Tax Policy Center says

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/18/61p...ome-taxes-in-2020-tax-policy-center-says.html
 
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#340
#340
ClearwaterVol said:
Never read or at least I don't remember reading Marx. I simply look at history. Certainly don't believe in communism, but pure capitalism ain't the answer either.

Because better is a relative term. The wealthy are taking a larger and larger percentage of the pie each year. It becomes unacceptable after a period of time.
Click to expand...

Is there any time frame in American history were you believe the poor and middle class lived better than today?

If not, it’s going to be hard to get a revolution from people who are continually doing better
 
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#341
#341
ClearwaterVol said:
Never read or at least I don't remember reading Marx. I simply look at history. Certainly don't believe in communism, but pure capitalism ain't the answer either.

Because better is a relative term. The wealthy are taking a larger and larger percentage of the pie each year. It becomes unacceptable after a period of time.
Click to expand...

Unacceptable to whom?
 
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#345
#345
Vol8188 said:
Okay and when I liquidate I’m taxed…so what’s the problem? I’m really not seeing it.

The poor and middle class every decade have an increased standard of living. Yet you believe at some point they’ll grow tired of living will because some live better?

You really should read some neomarxist literature some time. They openly address this and refer to how capitalism has stabilized the people and how they have to find a new group (no longer based in economics) to carry their revolutionary energy (cultural Marxism)
Click to expand...

The biggest hey day for the middle class occurred between 1920 and 1980. The toughest time for the 1% was also during that time. Is that a coincident? Also, biggest period for unions.
 
#348
#348
ClearwaterVol said:
The biggest hey day for the middle class occurred between 1920 and 1980. The toughest time for the 1% was also during that time. Is that a coincident? Also, biggest period for unions.
Click to expand...

So I want to make sure I’m understanding you, you believe the middle class in 1920 and 1980 was better off then, than they are now?

Is there an objective standard you’re using for this (purchasing power, or something else maybe)? Or just a general misunderstanding of history?
 
#349
#349
Vol8188 said:
Is there any time frame in American history were you believe the poor and middle class lived better than today?

If not, it’s going to be hard to get a revolution from people who are continually doing better
Click to expand...

Yes, when one income could support a family of four.
 
#350
#350
Vol8188 said:
So I want to make sure I’m understanding you, you believe the middle class in 1920 and 1980 was better off then, than they are now?

Is there an objective standard you’re using for this (purchasing power, or something else maybe)? Or just a general misunderstanding of history?
Click to expand...

You keep repeating the same sentences with no support.
 
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