They Don’t Pay Their Fair Share

[norrislakevol]

And republicans demonize the poor. What is your point?

Give me some specific examples of Republicans demonizing the poor.

 

[volinbham]

and there's this which shows wealth and income gap growth is not inevitable within our current system and doesn't require making those rich bastards pay their "fair share"

U.S. income inequality narrowed slightly over last three years: Fed

income inequality actually shrank and wealth inequality remained unchanged

 

[McDad]

The wealth disparity model is such a lazy, ignorant concept. It is why I tried to keep this thread on track yesterday. But y'all let Locomotive Luther derail this discussion into idiocy. So, I will jump in the pool with the rest of you.

Are the super wealthy hoarding their wealth? Do you imagine they are Scrooge McDuck diving into his cache of gold coins and swimming around? The super wealthy put their money to work in stocks, bonds, real estate, businesses and all of these ventures benefit everyone. Would the bottom 10% be better off without Amazon? Would they benefit from fewer grocery stores?

 

[VOLS INC.]

Give me some specific examples of Republicans demonizing the poor.

I think the left confuses “demonizing” with “encouraging”.

It’s like that able bodied nephew everyone has. Healthy young adult. Still living at home. Broke as a joke. He ask you for money and you reply “Hey bud, how about getting a job so you can support yourself”.

And he and his lib friends lose their mind and yell, “You hate the poor!!!”

 

[norrislakevol]

I think the left confuses “demonizing” with “encouraging”.

It’s like that able bodied nephew everyone has. Healthy young adult. Still living at home. Broke as a joke. He ask you for money and you reply “Hey bud, how about getting a job so you can support yourself”.

And he and his lib friends lose their mind and yell, “You hate the poor!!!”

Very well put.

 

[hog88]

The wealth disparity model is such a lazy, ignorant concept. It is why I tried to keep this thread on track yesterday. But y'all let Locomotive Luther derail this discussion into idiocy. So, I will jump in the pool with the rest of you.

Are the super wealthy hoarding their wealth? Do you imagine they are Scrooge McDuck diving into his cache of gold coins and swimming around? The super wealthy put their money to work in stocks, bonds, real estate, businesses and all of these ventures benefit everyone. Would the bottom 10% be better off without Amazon? Would they benefit from fewer grocery stores?

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I never worked for anyone less wealthy than me. (as an employee that is)

 

[Vol8188]

Exploding wealth inequality in the United States - Equitable Growth

Here was something from a quick google search. I don't have the time to play anymore today. Got too much work to do.

Okay. So to be clear you don’t have a standard and are just stating Democratic talking points you’ve heard before? I get being busy and not having time. It’s not my goal to waste your time. But you really should explore some of these claims sometime.

For example your own article you just posted states the wealth inequality now is the same as the 20s.

You also seem to be mistakenly confusing standard of living and wealth inequality given I asked when the middle class was better off and you posted a link about wealth inequality.

Here’s one standard we could use to get an idea of how the middle class is doing. The per capita income. You’ll notice in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, income is higher now than ever before. You’ll see a continual trend from the beginning of the chart (1960s) to the end, and you’ll see it’s far higher than it was in the 1980s. I’ve linked the source below.

It’s obviously harder to find data on the 1920s but I’d be curious what anyone can come up with. But it seems self evident that many in the middle class did not have cars, electricity, in door plumbing, etc. Given those alone are basically universal today, it’s hard to claim they were living better. In fact you can find claims that the middle class today live better than the wealthy of the early 20th century.

For most Americans, real wages have barely budged for decades

The Average American Today Is Richer than John D. Rockefeller | Donald J. Boudreaux

 

[volinbham]

The wealth disparity model is such a lazy, ignorant concept. It is why I tried to keep this thread on track yesterday. But y'all let Locomotive Luther derail this discussion into idiocy. So, I will jump in the pool with the rest of you.

Are the super wealthy hoarding their wealth? Do you imagine they are Scrooge McDuck diving into his cache of gold coins and swimming around? The super wealthy put their money to work in stocks, bonds, real estate, businesses and all of these ventures benefit everyone. Would the bottom 10% be better off without Amazon? Would they benefit from fewer grocery stores?

No - they are using their wealth to rig the system and control the world like the Koch Bro.s (or bro now I guess) but not like George Soros; he doesn't count.

the wealthy are intentionally making the poor poorer because they hate them and maybe once got beat up by a poor kid. Also they're tired of losing the girl to the poor guy back in her home town in those Hallmark movies so they are actively trying to crush the peons.

 

[luthervol]

Okay. So to be clear you don’t have a standard and are just stating Democratic talking points you’ve heard before? I get being busy and not having time. It’s not my goal to waste your time. But you really should explore some of these claims sometime.

For example your own article you just posted states the wealth inequality now is the same as the 20s.

You also seem to be mistakenly confusing standard of living and wealth inequality given I asked when the middle class was better off and you posted a link about wealth inequality.

Here’s one standard we could use to get an idea of how the middle class is doing. The per capita income. You’ll notice in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, income is higher now than ever before. You’ll see a continual trend from the beginning of the chart (1960s) to the end, and you’ll see it’s far higher than it was in the 1980s. I’ve linked the source below.

It’s obviously harder to find data on the 1920s but I’d be curious what anyone can come up with. But it seems self evident that many in the middle class did not have cars, electricity, in door plumbing, etc. Given those alone are basically universal today, it’s hard to claim they were living better. In fact you can find claims that the middle class today live better than the wealthy of the early 20th century.

For most Americans, real wages have barely budged for decades

The Average American Today Is Richer than John D. Rockefeller | Donald J. Boudreaux

And yet we have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
And yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world.
And yet we have the highest percent of population suffering from substance abuse in the world.

Having more stuff today than people had 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, in no way means that people are better off.
Quality of life is measured by happiness not stuff.
Some of you have been indoctrinated to believe that stuff = happiness.

 

[hog88]

And yet we have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
And yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world.
And yet we have the highest percent of population suffering from substance abuse in the world.

Having more stuff today than people had 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, in no way means that people are better off.
Quality of life is measured by happiness not stuff.
Some of you have been indoctrinated to believe that stuff = happiness.

End the war on drugs.
Stop trying to depress people by making them envious of others who have more.

 

[Vol8188]

And yet we have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
And yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world.
And yet we have the highest percent of population suffering from substance abuse in the world.

Having more stuff today than people had 50 years ago, or 100 years ago, in no way means that people are better off.
Quality of life is measured by happiness not stuff.
Some of you have been indoctrinated to believe that stuff = happiness.

So let’s start here. You agree that financially the lower, middle, and upper classes are better off financially? Seems we should finish that topic before moving on to the idea that being better off financially is itself bad

 

[Vol8188]

End the war on drugs.
Stop trying to depress people by making them envious of others who have more.

Start treating the mentality ill instead of praising them for “living their truth” and mutilating their bodies. When body builders go off test, they’re at an increased risk of suicide. So when you castrate (chemically or surgically) a man, we shouldn’t be shocked if takes his life

 

[luthervol]

So let’s start here. You agree that financially the lower, middle, and upper classes are better off financially? Seems we should finish that topic before moving on to the idea that being better off financially is itself bad

I agree they have more stuff.
They also have more debt.
If net worth was the metric, the average person would probably be worse off.

 

[Vol8188]

I agree they have more stuff.
They also have more debt.
If net worth was the metric, the average person would probably be worse off.

Worse off as compared to? What’s your time frame for when American’s were better off financially than they are today?

 

[hog88]

I agree they have more stuff.
They also have more debt.
If net worth was the metric, the average person would probably be worse off.

Who's fault is it for accumulating debt?

 

[luthervol]

End the war on drugs.
Stop trying to depress people by making them envious of others who have more.

Are our drug laws that different from other countries?
Wealth envy is the lifeblood capitalism. Are you wanting to make marketing and advertising illegal?

 

[luthervol]

Worse off as compared to? What’s your time frame for when American’s were better off financially than they are today?

You asked the question. Pick two years.
Or if it helps, I'll throw out two - 2020 and 1980.

 

[hog88]

Are our drug laws that different from other countries?
Wealth envy is the lifeblood capitalism. Are you wanting to make marketing and advertising illegal?

Just how uninformed are you?

No, wealth envy isn't the lifeblood of capitalism.

Of course I do not want to make marketing/advertising illegal. I want a smarter citizenry.

 

[luthervol]

Who's fault is it for accumulating debt?

What does that have to do with his question?

 

[hog88]

What does that have to do with his question?

If your position is that our poor are more in debt and it's affecting their quality of life it has everything to do with it.

 

[luthervol]

Just how uninformed are you?

No, wealth envy isn't the lifeblood of capitalism.

Of course I do not want to make marketing/advertising illegal. I want a smarter citizenry.

Educate me on our drug laws compared with other countries.
Sure wealth envy is the lifeblood of capitalism - watch 5 commercials.

 

[luthervol]

If your position is that our poor are more in debt and it's affecting their quality of life it has everything to do with it.

The question was are people better off today financially compared to years past?

 

[hog88]

Educate me on our drug laws compared with other countries.
Sure wealth envy is the lifeblood of capitalism - watch 5 commercials.

Keeping up with the Jones' isn't accumulating wealth and that is the focus of most advertising.

Some countries have pretty much legalized/decriminalized the majority of recreational drugs. HTF can you not know this?

 

[hog88]

The question was are people better off today financially compared to years past?

Most yes, some no. The vast majority that are not are because of their own decisions.

 

[Vol8188]

You asked the question. Pick two years.
Or if it helps, I'll throw out two - 2020 and 1980.

Okay. So after adjusting for inflation the average income for 1980 is about 1/3 what it is today.

So how were people better off in 1980?