They just don't get it . . .

#26
#26
Can someone who is against this bill tell me exactly what section they are against? What makes you think this is amnesty?

Also wouldn't NOT doing anything be more amnesty than supposedly this bill is?
 
#27
#27
it's amnesty because as soon as the president signs it into law, the 12 million or so already here are immediately given legal status. it doesn't matter if they're in the middle of a criminal deportation hearing or are a member of a gang seeking "asylum".

there is nothing, NOTHING compelling any honesty on behalf of the aliens. a dirty water bill and the word from a "friend" is all it takes for one to claim they arrived prior to 1-1-2007.

USCIS has 3000 people to do background checks and process visa requests. their current backlog is over 300,000. less than half of the screeners are qualified to perform background checks involving FBI and other databases. screeners also have 24 hours to process a visa request or else the applicant can go before a special court and be granted a provisional visa.

those who don't think this is amnesty are just kidding themselves.
 
#28
#28
What makes you think they get legal status? Please show me the exact section in the bill that automatically gives 12 million people legal status.

I am seriously asking you to show me in this bill where this immediately gives these people legal status. Because the section about these visas are not automatic. I want the opponents of this to give me specific examples on how this is amnesty.

So you would rather keep the status quo and continue living in delusion that more BP's and a fence will stop this? What of the 12 million already here? I guess we'll keep allowing them to commit heathcare and education fraud as well as take jobs because clearly the enforcement ability we have now cannot handle this. Anyone thinking 'secure borders first' is the way to go is kidding themselves.
 
#29
#29
CSpindizzy said:
Can someone who is against this bill tell me exactly what section they are against? What makes you think this is amnesty?

Also wouldn't NOT doing anything be more amnesty than supposedly this bill is?
Click to expand...

Is this actually Bush posting?

I am against more legislation for soemthing that is already illegal. Why do I need people to write 900 page bills telling me how they are going to do something when they aren't already enforcing what they have legislated in the past?
 
#31
#31
CSpindizzy said:
What makes you think they get legal status? Please show me the exact section in the bill that automatically gives 12 million people legal status.

I am seriously asking you to show me in this bill where this immediately gives these people legal status. Because the section about these visas are not automatic. I want the opponents of this to give me specific examples on how this is amnesty.

So you would rather keep the status quo and continue living in delusion that more BP's and a fence will stop this? What of the 12 million already here? I guess we'll keep allowing them to commit heathcare and education fraud as well as take jobs because clearly the enforcement ability we have now cannot handle this. Anyone thinking 'secure borders first' is the way to go is kidding themselves.
Click to expand...

Alert, Alert! Ted Kennedy is in here!:stop:
 
#32
#32
CSpindizzy said:
. Anyone thinking 'secure borders first' is the way to go is kidding themselves.
Click to expand...

Why would that not be the way to go? Yes, we should rely on the proven inept government to figure out a system of giving the current illegals citizenship and close our eyes to the gaping whole in the ship.
 
#33
#33
You would rather fit the bill for all of them, most who have never paid a cent in taxes? You would rather see the English language disappear and be replaced by an all Spanish speaking North America? You would rather see our emergency rooms so overburdened that they have to shut down? You would rather see all of these illegals that snuck across the border be granted amnesty while all of the immigrants who came here legally continue to toil through our archaic system? We are a country that rewards law breakers and opens our arms to people who have no vested interest in this country other than to make a fast buck, leach off our social services and then send all of their money home. Oh yeah and none of them pay taxes and yet they tax our social service network. Lovely. The balkanization of this country has been underway for many years. Say goodbye to America and hello Mexico.
 
#34
#34
allvol123 said:
Why would that not be the way to go? Yes, we should rely on the proven inept government to figure out a system of giving the current illegals citizenship and close our eyes to the gaping whole in the ship.
Click to expand...

Well let's see. Seeing how people are already digging tunnels under the portions of the fence that are up, guards are already corrupt running their own systems, and seeing how a fence on one border does nothing to protect the rest of the borders, this whole "secure borders first" still does nothing to actually solve the problem itself. How does this help?
 
#35
#35
CSpindizzy said:
What makes you think they get legal status? Please show me the exact section in the bill that automatically gives 12 million people legal status.

I am seriously asking you to show me in this bill where this immediately gives these people legal status. Because the section about these visas are not automatic. I want the opponents of this to give me specific examples on how this is amnesty.

So you would rather keep the status quo and continue living in delusion that more BP's and a fence will stop this? What of the 12 million already here? I guess we'll keep allowing them to commit heathcare and education fraud as well as take jobs because clearly the enforcement ability we have now cannot handle this. Anyone thinking 'secure borders first' is the way to go is kidding themselves.
Click to expand...

No, your flat out wrong. If anyone is kidding themselves it’s you. Securing our borders is a right of our sovereign nation. What does it mean to be American when anyone can become one just by running across the border. You’re an open border advocate and it sickens me. You my friend are sadly mistaken. Securing our borders is the only way to stem the flood of chain migration. Stop kidding yourself.
 
#36
#36
Maybe if Mexico would be held accountable we wouldn't have this problem. Instead it is the American taxpayers job to fix all of the worlds woes. Splendid!
 
#37
#37
Teddyhead said:
You would rather fit the bill for all of them, most who have never paid a cent in taxes? You would rather see the English language disappear and be replaced by an all Spanish speaking North America? You would rather see our emergency rooms so overburdened that they have to shut down? You would rather see all of these illegals that snuck across the border be granted amnesty while all of the immigrants who came here legally continue to toil through our archaic system? We are a country that rewards law breakers and opens our arms to people who have no vested interest in this country other than to make a fast buck, leach off our social services and then send all of their money home. Oh yeah and none of them pay taxes and yet they tax our social service network. Lovely. The balkanization of this country has been underway for many years. Say goodbye to America and hello Mexico.
Click to expand...

Umm...you've proved my point. If the opponents of this bill get their way, this what you just mentioned will continue to happen. A little fence on the Mexican border won't stop this. I hate to break this to you but all of this you mention will even get worse unless the true issues are addressed. Securing the borders or the delusion of doing so will do nothing to stop the real problems 12 million people here already cause.
 
#38
#38
CSpindizzy said:
Well let's see. Seeing how people are already digging tunnels under the portions of the fence that are up, guards are already corrupt running their own systems, and seeing how a fence on one border does nothing to protect the rest of the borders, this whole "secure borders first" still does nothing to actually solve the problem itself. How does this help?
Click to expand...

It helps by making the illegal crossers all concentrate where there is no fence, duh. What is so complicated about this. By doing that they can put the 20,000 new border patrol agents in that area. If there is no fence then they can try and cross in anywhere. This is such a simple concept that I get upset when someone tries to spin it like you are.
 
#40
#40
CSpindizzy said:
Well let's see. Seeing how people are already digging tunnels under the portions of the fence that are up, guards are already corrupt running their own systems, and seeing how a fence on one border does nothing to protect the rest of the borders, this whole "secure borders first" still does nothing to actually solve the problem itself. How does this help?
Click to expand...

So why do anything since you have made the conclusion that we are totally incapable of securing the border. Yes, assuming it is impossible, it does nothing to help. But, understanding it is not impossible, then there is plenty to be gained from it. You never know we may even figure out how to put a man on the moon one day. Again, is this Bush?
 
#41
#41
Teddyhead said:
No, your flat out wrong. If anyone is kidding themselves it’s you. Securing our borders is a right of our sovereign nation. What does it mean to be American when anyone can become one just by running across the border. You’re an open border advocate and it sickens me. You my friend are sadly mistaken. Securing our borders is the only way to stem the flood of chain migration. Stop kidding yourself.
Click to expand...

So you plan on paying endlessly for the 12 million already here. What does securing the borders do for the gangs, drugs, etc. already here? Nothing.
 
#42
#42
Bottom line, do we want to be the America of our past generations or do we want to end up completely divided? Unlike past generation of immigrants many of the millions of Mexicans coming here are NOT assimilating. Just watch them march around DEMANDING amnesty and a free ride with their MEXICAN flags waving. We have become a nation of cowards afraid to do what is right for the country and our children.
 
#43
#43
Teddyhead said:
It helps by making the illegal crossers all concentrate where there is no fence, duh. What is so complicated about this. By doing that they can put the 20,000 new border patrol agents in that area. If there is no fence then they can try and cross in anywhere. This is such a simple concept that I get upset when someone tries to spin it like you are.
Click to expand...

Umm...read the news. They're tunnelling already. They've found corrupt border guards already smuggling them in. There are ports and Canada as well. I bet you have a lock on your front door and leave all other doors and windows all open each night? Because this is what you're calling for.
 
#44
#44
CSpindizzy said:
So you plan on paying endlessly for the 12 million already here. What does securing the borders do for the gangs, drugs, etc. already here? Nothing.
Click to expand...

Yes, if I had water leaking in my house, I would not turn the water supply off. I would instead try to clean up all the water that has already leaked and leave the cause of the mess unfixed.
 
#45
#45
Tell me where in this bill amnesty is granted. Prove to me what section in this bill will immediately give amnesty to all 12 million illegals. Show me you're right. I'm looking at the bill right now and I don't see amnesty anywhere. You can buy into the talk radio spin all you want but amnesty is not in this bill.
 
#47
#47
CSpindizzy said:
Tell me where in this bill amnesty is granted. Prove to me what section in this bill will immediately give amnesty to all 12 million illegals. Show me you're right. I'm looking at the bill right now and I don't see amnesty anywhere. You can buy into the talk radio spin all you want but amnesty is not in this bill.
Click to expand...


Why is "immediately" such an issue?
 
#48
#48
allvol123 said:
Yes, if I had water leaking in my house, I would not turn the water supply off. I would instead try to clean up all the water that has already leaked and leave the cause of the mess unfixed.
Click to expand...

Who is trying that? Because this bill addresses ALL of the concerns here. Unlike the flipside that would rather sit in the flooded house and let mold and mildew take over. I guess trying to dry up and clean up the water damage would be stupid right? I hope you never face a natural disaster.
 
#49
#49
CSpindizzy said:
Umm...read the news. They're tunnelling already. They've found corrupt border guards already smuggling them in. There are ports and Canada as well. I bet you have a lock on your front door and leave all other doors and windows all open each night? Because this is what you're calling for.
Click to expand...

Hey man, you are crazy. Should we just do nothing? Are you so naive that you think by legalizing the 20+ million illegals it will stop more from coming? If we legalize these guys there will be another 50 million coming. Before you know it we will be the ones who are being run out of our own country! I live in California so you really have no clue what the situation is. Move out of Tennessee to one of the border states and maybe you will appreciate the situation a little more.
 
#50
#50
CSpindizzy said:
Tell me where in this bill amnesty is granted. Prove to me what section in this bill will immediately give amnesty to all 12 million illegals. Show me you're right. I'm looking at the bill right now and I don't see amnesty anywhere. You can buy into the talk radio spin all you want but amnesty is not in this bill.
Click to expand...

You tell 'em George Kennedy...I mean Ted Bush. Crap, I'm confused.
 
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