They just don't get it . . .

[Teddyhead]

Here is a simple fact that anyone with half a brain realizes. IF we DO NOT secure the borders AMERICA as we know it today will cease to exist. Got it? Comprende?

 

[allvol123]

It does a hell of a lot more than a fence does. Like I said how does a fence stop this? Again, people already found holes (literally and figuratively) in this fence that is up already. So your argument already cannot even resolve anything.

Where have I said fence, fence, fence? I am not arguing methods for shutting down the border. I am saying shut down the border. This bill nothing does nothing to stop the flow and thus I have no use for it.

And exactly what is "a hell of a lot more"?

 

[Teddyhead]

It does a hell of a lot more than a fence does. Like I said how does a fence stop this? Again, people already found holes (literally and figuratively) in this fence that is up already. So your argument already cannot even resolve anything.

:lolabove: :rofl:ost-4-1090547912:

 

[CSpindizzy]

so who stands at the border making sure they all cross back over into mexico? and what are the penalties for those who don't?

And a fence is better? How? Doing nothing is better? How?

 

[VolinArizona]

Seth/Teddy, as much as I dislike you, we agree. Moving to Arizona changed my perspective and increased my awareness. A country is defined by language, culture, and borders.

 

[allvol123]

And a fence is better? How? Doing nothing is better? How?

What does your bill do to stop the flow?

 

[CSpindizzy]

Where have I said fence, fence, fence? I am not arguing methods for shutting down the border. I am saying shut down the border. This bill nothing does nothing to stop the flow and thus I have no use for it.

And exactly what is "a hell of a lot more"?

How can you say shut down the border and offer no methods? Boy that's taking the easy way out. Again, tell me your perfect solution. I want to know what specifically you would do to solve this.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Here is a simple fact that anyone with half a brain realizes. IF we DO NOT secure the borders AMERICA as we know it today will cease to exist. Got it? Comprende?

Umm...again, how do you "secure the borders"? What do you do to secure the borders? And how does that address 12-20 million illegals already here?

 

[MG1968]

And a fence is better? How? Doing nothing is better? How?

you keep repeating the "doing nothing" mantra when people like me keep saying to enforce the laws we ALREADY have. and that doesn't include incarcerating two border patrol agents for killing a drug dealer. the problem with this bill is that the US Chamber of Commerce has an interest in keeping cheap labor flowing across the border. That interest has influence on both parties in DC.

 

[CSpindizzy]

Still waiting on two things:

1)Where in this bill is amnesty granted?
2)What better plan is there and how is it enacted?

 

[allvol123]

How can you say shut down the border and offer no methods? Boy that's taking the easy way out. Again, tell me your perfect solution. I want to know what specifically you would do to solve this.

OK. I am for having a military even though I do not know how to build a tank, fly a plane, or train an army. I really have no experience in formulating a battle plan either.I know it is insane. I guess it is the job of my elected officials to make sure systems are in place to protect my country.

 

[Teddyhead]

Seth/Teddy, as much as I dislike you, we agree. Moving to Arizona changed my perspective and increased my awareness. A country is defined by language, culture, and borders.

:clap: Thank you. My heart breaks over the plight of the Mexicans. But the United States can't fix all of the worlds problems. We have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many of our own. The Mexican governments solution to their own domestic instability is to send as many of their citizens to our country to overwhelm us.

 

[MG1968]

Still waiting on two things:

1)Where in this bill is amnesty granted?
2)What better plan is there and how is it enacted?

1. I've told you twice already, but you continue to ignore it.

2. a better plan is to enforce the laws already on the books, including going after employers who hire illegals.

 

[allvol123]

Still waiting on two things:

1)Where in this bill is amnesty granted?
2)What better plan is there and how is it enacted?

And when will you provide the answer to how this bill is better than doing nothing. So if we don;t have a better plan, we should automatically endorse any plan. Not quite.

 

[CSpindizzy]

you keep repeating the "doing nothing" mantra when people like me keep saying to enforce the laws we ALREADY have. and that doesn't include incarcerating two border patrol agents for killing a drug dealer. the problem with this bill is that the US Chamber of Commerce has an interest in keeping cheap labor flowing across the border. That interest has influence on both parties in DC.

If you looked into this, you'd see the math does not correspond to a solution. There are 12-20 million illegals and a limited amount of law enforcement to enforce the current laws. So how do you plan on enforcing the current laws with little resources?

Again, shooting down this bill means nothing else happens. Which means the status quo continues which means illegals still provide cheap labor. Documented workers means not so cheap labor.

 

[Teddyhead]

you keep repeating the "doing nothing" mantra when people like me keep saying to enforce the laws we ALREADY have. and that doesn't include incarcerating two border patrol agents for killing a drug dealer. the problem with this bill is that the US Chamber of Commerce has an interest in keeping cheap labor flowing across the border. That interest has influence on both parties in DC.

They didn't even kill him, they just nicked him. Oh and they gave that guy a green card and a bunch of money! Thanks Bush. Alberto Gonzales is a tool to Mexico.

 

[CSpindizzy]

1. I've told you twice already, but you continue to ignore it.

2. a better plan is to enforce the laws already on the books, including going after employers who hire illegals.

Actually you've yet to show me specifically in the bill. So I'm not ignoring. You are. Please go look up the bill and point it out.

And this bill actually addresses both of those. So you actually support this more than you realize.

 

[Teddyhead]

Guys I gotta go. Because I can no longer support my family, get a decent job and no healthcare I am headed to Mexico. I am taking my American flag and I am going to demand Amnesty, a good job and all of the social benefits they can offer. Meet me at the border guys.

 

[BigPapaVol]

So what do you suggest? What is your solution? What bill would you pass?

How about we fund the enforcement mechanisms in place such that they could perform their functions, hold those agencies accountable and abide by the laws on the books?

 

[CSpindizzy]

And when will you provide the answer to how this bill is better than doing nothing. So if we don;t have a better plan, we should automatically endorse any plan. Not quite.

So on the flip side you are against something you have not read and have no clue what it contains.

It provides more money and resources for ALL borders, it provides for punishment for those who hire illegals, it provides for better organization to process more work visas instead of the red tape that takes months now, etc. I will keep going if you want. But this is very comprehensive. Again, there is no amnesty here. Can you provide me a reason not to pass this? Especially since it gives even more resources to be able to enforce the current laws and goes to the root of the problem rather than put a bandaid fix on something already proven to not work.

 

[allvol123]

How about we fund the enforcement mechanisms in place such that they could perform their functions, hold those agencies accountable and abide by the laws on the books?

NO! We should write 900 more pages of legislation that will really look like we are doing something.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Guys I gotta go. Because I can no longer support my family, get a decent job and no healthcare I am headed to Mexico. I am taking my American flag and I am going to demand Amnesty, a good job and all of the social benefits they can offer. Meet me at the border guys.

would "good riddance" be appropriate here?

 

[CSpindizzy]

How about we fund the enforcement mechanisms in place such that they could perform their functions, hold those agencies accountable and abide by the laws on the books?

Wow. This bill actually does that. Next?

Again, it is quite difficult to have a handful of agents trying to enforce law on millions of illegals. Perhaps providing for more border agents, ICE agents, etc. will give more manpower to enforce the current laws.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Wow. This bill actually does that. Next?

Again, it is quite difficult to have a handful of agents trying to enforce law on millions of illegals. Perhaps providing for more border agents, ICE agents, etc. will give more manpower to enforce the current laws.

Then I can't imagine why anyone would be against it. They must be ill informed like me.

 

[allvol123]

So on the flip side you are against something you have not read and have no clue what it contains.

It provides more money and resources for ALL borders, it provides for punishment for those who hire illegals, it provides for better organization to process more work visas instead of the red tape that takes months now, etc. I will keep going if you want. But this is very comprehensive. Again, there is no amnesty here. Can you provide me a reason not to pass this? Especially since it gives even more resources to be able to enforce the current laws and goes to the root of the problem rather than put a bandaid fix on something already proven to not work.

No, please keep going. You have really bought into this. And I see why, the history is so good on enforcing the laws of immigration. Band-aid on something proven not to work? What has proven not to work? I did not know we have tried anything?