"They're out to get us!" The science behind conspiracy addicts, and a possible cure

#26
#26
This is something written my Michael Crichton some time back that I think actually covers a lot of ground. He is specifically referencing hard science but I think the thought process can be expanded. Note there is nothing he alludes to that makes "being different" /"thinking outside the box"/etc has any actual merit in and of itself. That's as flawed an idea as just selling "consensus means it's right".

“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.​
“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.​
 
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#28
#28
ClearwaterVol said:
The virus lab leak and created in the lab are two different things.
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They do gain of function research in said lab. If you're admitting that it may have been leaked from the lab, then it is at least plausible that said virus was "created" in the lab for gain of function purposes. That's not crazy nut job territory.
 
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#29
#29
hndog609 said:
This is something written my Michael Crichton some time back that I think actually covers a lot of ground. He is specifically referencing hard science but I think the thought process can be expanded. Note there is nothing he alludes to that makes "being different" /"thinking outside the box"/etc has any actual merit in and of itself. That's as flawed an idea as just selling "consensus means it's right".

“I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.​
“Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.​
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I think that came from "State of Fear". One of my favorite of his books.
 
#32
#32
ClearwaterVol said:
The virus lab leak and created in the lab are two different things.
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I suppose it could be stated there is a distinction between the specifics of the assertions (a lab leak does not necessarily require what leaked was from a GOF project) but considering both have, over time, become increasingly mainstream in acceptance certainly ties them together. That both ideas, particularly the latter, were savagely attacked in the beginning is something that should be taken into consideration now.
 
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#33
#33
hndog609 said:
I suppose it could be stated there is a distinction between the specifics of the assertions (a lab leak does not necessarily require what leaked was from a GOF project) but considering both have, over time, become increasingly mainstream in acceptance certainly ties them together. That both ideas, particularly the latter, were savagely attacked in the beginning is something that should be taken into consideration now.
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You weren't allowed to believe it without being labeled a nut job. And now it is generally accepted as a likely cause of the pandemic.
 
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#34
#34
AshG said:
Conspiracy theorists lack critical thinking skills: New study

Critical thinking is the objective analysis and evaluation of a situation – and requires a number of cognitive skills.

These include the ability to think systematically, see other perspectives, change your mind when new evidence arises, identify relevant versus irrelevant information, identify and discard logical fallacies, be aware of biases and avoid them, and look beyond the obvious.
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I feel the same way about those who believe in systemic racism another conspiracy theory
 
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#35
#35
"Trust the scientists, bigot!!!"

Which scientists? The ones claiming mask mandates and lockdowns are effective? Or the scientists that may have created the ******* pandemic in the first place? But we definitely should NOT trust any of the scientists who claim that Vitamin D deficiency is a requisite precursor to being infected by Covid. And definitely DON'T believe any scientists making a claim of the effectiveness of Ivermectin. "That's for horses, derp!!!"
 
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#36
#36
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not enough of a difference. Neither option is a better than the other. I'm not sure if that distinction even matters in the grand scheme of things.
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Huge difference because the people making the assertions were saying that it was created in a lab and then intentionally released to screw the world. In essence that China had created a bioweapon and launched an attack. It is the leaps in logic that make things conspiracy theories.
 
#40
#40
I’ve always enjoyed listening to people talking about conspiracy theories with a negative slant, trying to convince people that it’s just what crazy people talk about and can’t be taking seriously while trying to convince you that you should trust the government to keep you safe , do no harm to its citizens , and not keep facts or truths from you . Not that it matters now because , well it’s ancient history , but our government ran secret biological tests on its own citizens without their knowledge up until Nixon publicly put a stop to it . Now I’m sure they quit immediately and haven’t done it since , I’m also positive we can trust that they would never funnel money into different scientific groups that are willing to do research into anything thought to have military use potential . Conspiracy theories are fun aren’t they ?
 
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#41
#41
volinbham said:
Russiagate was my favorite
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I forget, is Russia gate the absurdity of the implication that that there was Russian interference or Russian collusion?
 
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#44
#44
0nelilreb said:
I’ve always enjoyed listening to people talking about conspiracy theories with a negative slant, trying to convince people that it’s just what crazy people talk about and can’t be taking seriously while trying to convince you that you should trust the government to keep you safe , do no harm to its citizens , and not keep facts or truths from you . Not that it matters now because , well it’s ancient history , but our government ran secret biological tests on its own citizens without their knowledge up until Nixon publicly put a stop to it . Now I’m sure they quit immediately and haven’t done it since , I’m also positive we can trust that they would never funnel money into different scientific groups that are willing to do research into anything thought to have military use potential . Conspiracy theories are fun aren’t they ?
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The corporate news audience is trained that when an event is labeled “conspiracy theory”, they can disregard the issue and that only wingnuts will have some belief in said issue.
Some actual “conspiracy theories”
-The Constitutional Convention
-Assassination of Abraham Lincoln
-Operation Mockingbird
-FBI harassment of Dick Gregory
-Operation Paperclip
-The Gulf of Tonkin
-FBI campaign to destroy MLK
-The Tuskegee Syphilis experiment
-Watergate
Etc
 
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#45
#45
(This isn't going where I thought it would, but it's still pretty darned interesting. /Popcorn)
 
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#48
#48
utvolpj said:
It's a manipulated virus that somehow got out of a lab. They can absolutely happen at the same time
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Are you stating your first sentence as fact? If the virus came from a lab, it does not necessarily follow that it was created in the lab or manipulated or any other such thing. It could be, but people like to make the leap from A to B when the truth of A is not dependent upon the truth of B.
 
#49
#49
ClearwaterVol said:
Are you stating your first sentence as fact? If the virus came from a lab, it does not necessarily follow that it was created in the lab or manipulated or any other such thing. It could be, but people like to make the leap from A to B when the truth of A is not dependent upon the truth of B.
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I believe those who've said it showed definite signs of manipulation. I've not seen anything to show it was intentionally released
 
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#50
#50
ClearwaterVol said:
Are you stating your first sentence as fact? If the virus came from a lab, it does not necessarily follow that it was created in the lab or manipulated or any other such thing. It could be, but people like to make the leap from A to B when the truth of A is not dependent upon the truth of B.
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The bold alone makes you a conspiracy theorist nut job by the standards set forth by the media at the beginning of the pandemic. That's the argument here.
 
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