"They're out to get us!" The science behind conspiracy addicts, and a possible cure

#77
#77
Velo Vol said:
You know you're right. Next thing we know the government will be implementing speed limits, building codes, restaurant inspections, and healthcare licensing, all under the guise of “public health and safety.”
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Or they could be forcing you to download an app, requiring you stay inside your home, and sending the police if you don’t comply

Is that conspiratorial or something actually occurring in the world right now?
 
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#78
#78
Velo Vol said:
You know you're right. Next thing we know the government will be implementing speed limits, building codes, restaurant inspections, and healthcare licensing, all under the guise of “public health and safety.”
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There are videos out there of fear porn folks publicly shaming others into compliance over speed limits, building codes, restaurant inspections and healthcare licensing and I’ve been missing out on seeing them. Dam-mit, I wonder how much reeeeee is in them...🤔 What platform are those on?
 
#80
#80
AshG said:
Like which ones?
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Probably dependent on the person.

Most restrictions are actually undefinable quantities that someone has "defined". Speed limits - that's a great one, and almost purely subjective - a number pulled out of the air or more likely somewhere more confined. The concept is to define safe and unsafe speed, but almost anyone can tell you that a safe speed is variable depending on conditions - often defined by planners who allow throughways to be driveways when someone wants to plant a Walmart or Home Depot or ... And don't forget the "safe speed" for interstates went from 75 (generally) to 55 when gas got short and the feds mandated the speed limit - so in reality that is one proof of a restriction in the name of safety is really not about safety at all. When Hamilton Co (TN) didn't pass a federally mandated air quality number, the feds forced TN to implement lower speed limits and implement emissions testing - round two that a "safety" measure was all about something else. Of curse, it's ironic to see a speed limit saying 55 when you are going 15 because traffic isn't moving - conditions - probably because to move people faster with interstate highways through cities, the interstate cut off many existing roads. Who needs chaos when you have thoughtful, autocratic planners?
 
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#81
#81
AshG said:
Like which ones?
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Speed limits aren't about safety. Many building codes are overreach and an inspector with a grudge can make things difficult. Licensing overall is really a money making scam

I'm just always shocked at the constant "here's what govt does that's so good for us" as if we couldn't ever accomplish those little tasks without them. We're helpless without being told what to do by a few rich people
 
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#84
#84
utvolpj said:
Except they all are. Control given up is never willingly returned
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See, here's the conspiracy part. You could criticize the mask rules by saying they are arbitrary, ineffective, an attempt by politicians to look like they're "doing something," whatever.

But no, the conspiracy nut is always looking for the "this law is a stepping stone to Nazi Germany" take. Which gets thrown around at any regulation, even the most slight, that the speaker doesn't like.
 
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#85
#85
Velo Vol said:
See, here's the conspiracy part. You could criticize the mask rules by saying they are arbitrary, ineffective, an attempt by politicians to look like they're "doing something," whatever.

But no, the conspiracy nut is always looking for the "this law is a stepping stone to Nazi Germany" take. Which gets thrown around at any regulation, even the most slight, that the speaker doesn't like.
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The govt now has attempted to shut down the entire country and had many who back that effort. Those same back ridiculous mandates without questions. It didn't take a conspiracy nut to extrapolate a but further and see what's coming. Just check out Australia and how much fun their police seem to be having

I've never said anything about Nazi Germany. No need to use such an extreme, evil example when we're just taking about a govt seeking power to control its citizens
 
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#86
#86
utvolpj said:
Except they all are. Control given up is never willingly returned
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This is just so ridiculous in my mind.
When the freedoms exercised by person A limit the freedoms of person B, a decision has to be made.
Society necessarily steps in to make that decision.
 
#87
#87
Velo Vol said:
See, here's the conspiracy part. You could criticize the mask rules by saying they are arbitrary, ineffective, an attempt by politicians to look like they're "doing something," whatever.

But no, the conspiracy nut is always looking for the "this law is a stepping stone to Nazi Germany" take. Which gets thrown around at any regulation, even the most slight, that the speaker doesn't like.
Click to expand...

Endlessly increasing quantites of rules enforced by an unaccountable central power. That's kind of the definition of totalitarianism. Doesn't have to be some big conspiracy. It's just general trends away from freedom towards safety and the government takes advantage of it or encourages the further trending.
 
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#88
#88
luthervol said:
This is just so ridiculous in my mind.
When the freedoms exercised by person A limit the freedoms of person B, a decision has to be made.
Society necessarily steps in to make that decision.
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Faith placed in govt is ridiculous in mine

What you harp on doesn't do that. Freedom of choice is not removed and your rights are not violated. Govt needs to get out of the way
 
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#89
#89
luthervol said:
This is just so ridiculous in my mind.
When the freedoms exercised by person A limit the freedoms of person B, a decision has to be made.
Society necessarily steps in to make that decision.
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How does person A exersising their freedoms limit person Bs ability to exercise theirs?
 
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#90
#90
hog88 said:
How does person A exersising their freedoms limit person Bs ability to exercise theirs?
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Does person A have the freedom to shoot off fireworks in his own yard?
Does person A have the freedom to keep any animal he wishes on his property?
Does person A have the freedom to dump any chemical he wishes into the creek running through his property?
 
#91
#91
luthervol said:
Does person A have the freedom to shoot off fireworks in his own yard?
Does person A have the freedom to keep any animal he wishes on his property?
Does person A have the freedom to dump any chemical he wishes into the creek running through his property?
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Yes.
Yes.
And there you go forgetting that no one has the freedom/right to hurt another.
 
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#92
#92
Modern conspiracy theorists came from two things: The internet and the global ability to disseminate information, and the X-Files.
 
#93
#93
hog88 said:
Yes.
Yes.
And there you go forgetting that no one has the freedom/right to hurt another.
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So person A can shoot off fireworks all night? I think his neighbors may disagree.
What can person A dump in the creek? Anything that doesn't harm others.
What can he not dump? Anything that harms others.
There you go again ignoring the fact that someone has to decide when an activity becomes harmful to others.
I think that person A and B may disagree. Person A my even consider person B's idea of harmful to be an infringement on his rights to dump things he considers to not be harmful.

I think you get the idea.
 
#94
#94
luthervol said:
Does person A have the freedom to shoot off fireworks in his own yard?
Does person A have the freedom to keep any animal he wishes on his property?
Does person A have the freedom to dump any chemical he wishes into the creek running through his property?
Click to expand...
Your fondness for sheep is well documented, so yes.
 
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#95
#95
luthervol said:
So person A can shoot off fireworks all night? I think his neighbors may disagree.
What can person A dump in the creek? Anything that doesn't harm others.
What can he not dump? Anything that harms others.
There you go again ignoring the fact that someone has to decide when an activity becomes harmful to others.
I think that person A and B may disagree. Person A my even consider person B's idea of harmful to be an infringement on his rights to dump things he considers to not be harmful.

I think you get the idea.
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Where I live yeah, I could shoot off fireworks all night, it'd piss the neighbors off but no noise ordinance to stop me.
Yes
Yes
That someone should be hard science.
What person B thinks is harmful doesn't matter if the science says it's not.
 
#96
#96
hog88 said:
Where I live yeah, I could shoot off fireworks all night, it'd piss the neighbors off but no noise ordinance to stop me.
Yes
Yes
That someone should be hard science.
What person B thinks is harmful doesn't matter if the science says it's not.
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And who picks which science to adopt as true?
 
#99
#99
utvolpj said:
The govt now has attempted to shut down the entire country and had many who back that effort. Those same back ridiculous mandates without questions. It didn't take a conspiracy nut to extrapolate a but further and see what's coming. Just check out Australia and how much fun their police seem to be having
Click to expand...
The rules change during a pandemic, as they should. Same happened during big wars. When the crisis passes, you revert back to the old order.
SamRebel35 said:
Endlessly increasing quantites of rules enforced by an unaccountable central power. That's kind of the definition of totalitarianism. Doesn't have to be some big conspiracy. It's just general trends away from freedom towards safety and the government takes advantage of it or encourages the further trending.
Click to expand...
That's why we periodically have elections. If the system is functioning properly, they are always a check on central power.
FLVOL_79 said:
Modern conspiracy theorists came from two things: The internet and the global ability to disseminate information, and the X-Files.
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I watched very little of the X-Files. I did see the movie a few months ago.
 
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#100
#100
hog88 said:
Where I live yeah, I could shoot off fireworks all night, it'd piss the neighbors off but no noise ordinance to stop me.
Yes
Yes
That someone should be hard science.
What person B thinks is harmful doesn't matter if the science says it's not.
Click to expand...
Does a city, community, or neighborhood have the right to establish a noise ordinance that limits the rights of an individual to shoot off fireworks at any hour of the night?
 
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