this is a must read -- great post to expand your thinking

#76
#76
jaybird_1981 said:
Mandel is right here though no matter who the quarterback at Notre Dame is they are overrated.
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how can someone that is in the top 15 alltime in pass yards, who set 35 ND records at QB, who had the 5th best TD:INT ratio ever be overrated? Overrated in what aspect? He's played for 2 years with a bunch of 2 and 3 star athletes (mainly all 3*) and accomplish these numbers. He was sacked 30+ times this year -- more than any other top QB by far -- his O Line was a sieve. He led 2 4th quarter comebacks.


Yeah, that article is nice about Quinn. I didn't say "EVERY" article is bashing Quinn. I said the media as a whole berrates Quinn unnecessarily. It's been going on all seasson since the UM game. I've never heard a player be so unabashedly despised for doing nothing but playing the game.
 
#78
#78
njuneardave said:
how can someone that is in the top 15 alltime in pass yards, who set 35 ND records at QB, who had the 5th best TD:INT ratio ever be overrated? Overrated in what aspect? He's played for 2 years with a bunch of 2 and 3 star athletes (mainly all 3*) and accomplish these numbers. He was sacked 30+ times this year -- more than any other top QB by far -- his O Line was a sieve. He led 2 4th quarter comebacks.


Yeah, that article is nice about Quinn. I didn't say "EVERY" article is bashing Quinn. I said the media as a whole berrates Quinn unnecessarily. It's been going on all seasson since the UM game. I've never heard a player be so unabashedly despised for doing nothing but playing the game.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, I think he is a hell of a qaurterback and does recieve alot of unwarrented bashing from people.

However, you stated that Notre Dame deserved a BCS bowl and i have tried to repeatedly for you to answer as to why they do?

WHY DOES NOTRE DAME IN YOUR EYES DESERVE TO BE PLAYING IN THE BCS?
 
#81
#81
njuneardave said:
I said the media as a whole berrates Quinn unnecessarily. It's been going on all seasson since the UM game. I've never heard a player be so unabashedly despised for doing nothing but playing the game.
Click to expand...

You started this thread by saying "expand your thinking". I can find article after article that talks positively about BQ and only a few that speak negatively. I've seen none that "berrate" him and no evidence that the media despises him.

In the last article I posted, even BQ acknowledges that he was overhyped coming into the season.
 
#83
#83
utchatt said:
As a matter of fact I am. I grew up in goverment housing in Chattanooga. I was raised by a single mother who worked two jobs so we could just get by. My brother escaped the ghetto by getting a baseball scholarship to Samford University in Alabama. He turned that scholarship into a Law degree and has a successful practice in Jacksonville. While I turned to books, I recieved an academic scholarship to Boston University and later studied at Oxford University in England. Then I received my Ph. D. from Virginia. And even though we "came from the ghetto" we never once got into any kind of trouble. If there is any questions as to the definiton of narrow minded, one needs only to look at your post about kids from the ghetto. And by the way you did say all kids from the ghetto. I joined this board to enjoy talking about football, but when insulting sterotypes are thrown around so carelessly it is time for me to leave. I have enjoyed most of the post and disagreed with a lot, but the fun has now ended for me. Thanks for letting me be part of your board.:salute:
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Don't call me narrow-minded. You clearly read what you wanted to read. I'm glad you found good fortune. I certainly didn't mean to imply that such a turnaround is impossible. After studying anthropology, I have found that the odds are quite stacked against kids from ghettos. I have little knowledge of Chattanooga, so I don't know how it compares to other cities, so I won't try to make any assumptions about what you faced. Anyway, the area where Smith grew up was overrun with gangs and the schools were terrible. Unforately there isn't a whole lot of hope for most of these kids. That's what makes Smith's story all the more impressive.
 
#85
#85
kptvol said:
Blogs aren't exactly the strongest outlet for the media. When has the media ever attacked Quinn's character or class? As for Mark May, he doesn't hold a blind allegiance to any player or team. His opinion is much less biased and infinitely more logical than Lou's insane ramblings.
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i never said that they attacked his class. I said they attacked him as a person. not once did i say they attacked his class. They berrated him as a player, and shouted overrated at every mistake. It was quite sickening. I consider myself an unbiased Vol fan. I am not biased toward any program, and I call it like I see it. And I see Mark May as extremely biased against Notre Dame.... so much so, that it must be an act to counter Holtz's insane bias toward the domers.


As far as your ratings chart: yeah, Notre Dame draws the biggest crowds. We know that. That doesn't mean that the studio analysts and journalists love ND. In fact, I believe that a lot of the putrid remarks are a backlash to the *attention* that ND gets. Yeah, the Irish are the most watched team in CFB -- i'm not talking about their TV ratings... i am talking about the literature written about them.
 
#86
#86
njuneardave said:
i never said that they attacked his class. I said they attacked him as a person. not once did i say they attacked his class. They berrated him as a player, and shouted overrated at every mistake. It was quite sickening. I consider myself an unbiased Vol fan. I am not biased toward any program, and I call it like I see it. And I see Mark May as extremely biased against Notre Dame.... so much so, that it must be an act to counter Holtz's insane bias toward the domers.


As far as your ratings chart: yeah, Notre Dame draws the biggest crowds. We know that. That doesn't mean that the studio analysts and journalists love ND. In fact, I believe that a lot of the putrid remarks are a backlash to the *attention* that ND gets. Yeah, the Irish are the most watched team in CFB -- i'm not talking about their TV ratings... i am talking about the literature written about them.
Click to expand...

So why does it matter that he is a classy guy? There are plenty of class acts that aren't great football players.
 
#89
#89
Such was the season for Notre Dame in the media: we really took it on the chin, over and over.
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For God's sake. Media attention cuts both ways; obsessive media attention is the only reason why people even think of ND as a relevant program anymore. Notre Dame is about to finish up its second consecutive season in a BCS bowl game without having beaten one good opponent in either season. They have their own TV deal and special rules that guarantee them a spot in the BCS every year if they can get through a schedule of service academies, mediocre Big Ten teams, and an annual loss to USC. Media attention was responsible for that Fiesta Bowl trip last year, the #2 rating this year, etc. etc. So when your QB goes out and looks like crap against Michigan, for example, please do not complain when he is scrutinized for his performance.

And for a ND fan to be complaining about "SEC provincialism" in the Heisman balloting is especially laughable. Your team has won as many Heisman trophies as the whole Southeastern Conference, sir. Stop whining.
 
#90
#90
njuneardave said:
because they dont get the negativity that Quinn gets.
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The fact of the matter is that the Heisman was Quinn's to lose this year, and he lost it. I saw so many articles last spring and summer proclaiming Quinn the next Heisman winner. Considering I saw the exact same thing with Matt and Reggie, I assumed Quinn really would be the next winner. Unfortunately for him, they didn't beat any quality opponents and lost two games. Smith went undefeated.
 
#92
#92
VOLinthaATL said:
I agree with you, I think he is a hell of a qaurterback and does recieve alot of unwarrented bashing from people.

However, you stated that Notre Dame deserved a BCS bowl and i have tried to repeatedly for you to answer as to why they do?

WHY DOES NOTRE DAME IN YOUR EYES DESERVE TO BE PLAYING IN THE BCS?
Click to expand...


good question. I'm glad you asked =D


I will give you a list of teams that I consider elligible for a BCS bowl that are in the same area as Notre Dame:

WVU
VaTech
Rutgers

These are the only 3 teams that I consider to have a real argument. 3-loss teams should not be in BCS bowls (ala FSU last year... what a joke). Other 2-loss teams were eliminated ala 2-team max/conf BCS rule.


Notre Dame beat exactly one team in the BCS top 25: UCLA. Ga Tech, Penn State, and Navy (yes 9-3 Navy) are all in the top 30 in other polls.

Notre Dame did not beat any top tier teams, but they beat UCLA, who beat USC. This is the same circumstance with both Rutgers and WVU -- no top tier team wins except against each other in a round-robin. VaTech's best win was against Wake. You know how I feel about Wake. But VaTech lost to GaTech who lost to Notre Dame. This quickly becomes a web. So, I have to take this cloudy information and compare losses.

Notre Dame loses to: UM (badly) and USC (badly)

WVU loses to: Lousiville (not too close) and USF (embarrassing)

Rutgers loses to: Cincy (badly) and WVU (close)


so... who deserves to be considered to be better? A team that lost badly to a bad team (Rutgers to Cincy)? No, they are out.

okay, now, WVU or Notre Dame. WVU lost to USF by 7 and Louisville by 10. Notre Dame lost to UM and USC by 20+ each. So, you could argue that it's a toss-up and I would agree. However, I'm going to have to go with Notre Dame b/c it beat teams higher ranked than USF and WVU has not beat teams higher ranked that teams that Notre Dame lost to.... i think that is fair.

that's my reasoning.
 
#93
#93
kptvol said:
The fact of the matter is that the Heisman was Quinn's to lose this year, and he lost it.
Click to expand...

Bingo. He came out and threw three interceptions in a hugely hyped game against Michigan the week after Smith dismantled Texas. Smith jumped him in the Heisman hype machine, and Quinn never recovered.
 
#94
#94
What have these teams done to merit a spot over the Irish?
Click to expand...

Beaten at least one team of significance for one. Notre Shame plays the academies and various other worthless teams, gets stomped by the the only two good teams they play, and now they're playing in a BCS bowl against LSU. Maybe you'll finally admit that Notre Shame is a fraud after LSU beats them by 3 or 4 TDs in the Sugar Bowl.
 
#95
#95
njuneardave said:
good question. I'm glad you asked =D


I will give you a list of teams that I consider elligible for a BCS bowl that are in the same area as Notre Dame:

WVU
VaTech
Rutgers

These are the only 3 teams that I consider to have a real argument. 3-loss teams should not be in BCS bowls (ala FSU last year... what a joke). Other 2-loss teams were eliminated ala 2-team max/conf BCS rule.


Notre Dame beat exactly one team in the BCS top 25: UCLA. Ga Tech, Penn State, and Navy (yes 9-3 Navy) are all in the top 30 in other polls.

Notre Dame did not beat any top tier teams, but they beat UCLA, who beat USC. This is the same circumstance with both Rutgers and WVU -- no top tier team wins except against each other in a round-robin. VaTech's best win was against Wake. You know how I feel about Wake. But VaTech lost to GaTech who lost to Notre Dame. This quickly becomes a web. So, I have to take this cloudy information and compare losses.

Notre Dame loses to: UM (badly) and USC (badly)

WVU loses to: Lousiville (not too close) and USF (embarrassing)

Rutgers loses to: Cincy (badly) and WVU (close)


so... who deserves to be considered to be better? A team that lost badly to a bad team (Rutgers to Cincy)? No, they are out.

okay, now, WVU or Notre Dame. WVU lost to USF by 7 and Louisville by 10. Notre Dame lost to UM and USC by 20+ each. So, you could argue that it's a toss-up and I would agree. However, I'm going to have to go with Notre Dame b/c it beat teams higher ranked than USF and WVU has not beat teams higher ranked that teams that Notre Dame lost to.... i think that is fair.

that's my reasoning.
Click to expand...

How about Virginia Tech?
 
#96
#96
njuneardave said:
good question. I'm glad you asked =D


I will give you a list of teams that I consider elligible for a BCS bowl that are in the same area as Notre Dame:

WVU
VaTech
Rutgers

These are the only 3 teams that I consider to have a real argument. 3-loss teams should not be in BCS bowls (ala FSU last year... what a joke). Other 2-loss teams were eliminated ala 2-team max/conf BCS rule.
Click to expand...

Any arguement stating that ND deserves a BCS bid based on only 2 teams from each conference is allowed IS RIDICULOUS.

The rule is ridiculous. It should be the best 12 teams regardless of conference.
 
#97
#97
Agreed, there are a number of teams that should be ahead of ND for a BCS,bid but can not b/c they actually play in a conference. If ND played in any conference they would not be in a BCS bowl game. More likely they Tampax bowl or somthing along those lines...If they were in almost any conference they would have lost more than 2 games.
 
#98
#98
oklavol said:
Any arguement stating that ND deserves a BCS bid based on only 2 teams from each conference is allowed IS RIDICULOUS.

The rule is ridiculous. It should be the best 12 teams regardless of conference.
Click to expand...

That's true. I understand the thought process behind it. They probably didn't want three teams from an overrated conference to make it in. I think people would be a little cranky if Louisville, West Virgina, and Rutgers all made it in. You could also argue that Wisconsin doesn't really deserve a bid, although they certainly would get one if not for said rule.
 
#99
#99
VOLinthaATL said:
How about Virginia Tech?
Click to expand...


whoops, i forgot them:

VaTech's best win was Wake Forest. Their second best win was against Clemson (who is ranked around the same as Penn St). Clemson got blasted by BC and beaten to the tune of 11 pts by GaTech (at home!)... the same team that Notre Dame beat at GaTech. VaTech's win over Clemson was nice, but ND's win over PennSt was better.

The nail in the coffin to me is the GaTech game tho.
 
#100
#100
oklavol said:
Any arguement stating that ND deserves a BCS bid based on only 2 teams from each conference is allowed IS RIDICULOUS.

The rule is ridiculous. It should be the best 12 teams regardless of conference.
Click to expand...

why is my statement ridiculous? Notre Dame didn't make the rule. I am saying that Notre Dame deserves a BCS bowl b/c these teams are not elligible. If these teams were elligible, then Notre Dame would not deserve a BCS bowl. Period.
 
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