This Isn’t Working Out (Allen West Statement)

#327
#327
canitpro said:
Again, where are you drawing this inference? I never said any such thing. Guaranteeing enough jobs to cover the population is not equal to giving away everything. You would still have to work, I also never mentioned anything about a guaranteed income of any kind if that is what you are getting at
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So you realize to have France as you wish we would have to completely revamp our country. Government and economy policy.

France is a unitary state with extremely strong central control. We are a federalist state. Our government wouldn’t work under the strong central services model we’d pretty much have to dissolve the regional state governments to provide that central control or as a minimum highly dilute them. Then let’s talk about a unitary government over the span of our country size and a population of 350M people. We are 1700% larger area wise and 6x larger population wise. Why do you assume economies of scale will even work?
 
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#330
#330
NorthDallas40 said:
So you realize to have France as you wish we would have to completely revamp our country. Government and economy policy.

France is a unitary state with extremely strong central control. We are a federalist state. Our government wouldn’t work under the strong central services model we’d pretty much have to dissolve the regional state governments to provide that central control or as a minimum highly dilute them. Then let’s talk about a unitary government over the span of our country size and a population of 350M people. We are 1700% larger area wise and 6x larger population wise. Why do you assume economies of scale will even work?
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I commented on their work week — you chose to run that up the flag pole as me wanting our country to be France.

I outlined in my post on the 2nd Bill of Rights what I would advocate for, which is an adjustment within the bounds of our current system
 
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#331
#331
canitpro said:
I’ll summarize it in terms of impacts, in most cases it is just an expansion of rights:

right to a job = no need for unemployment insurance; work programs like TVA, ORNL, conservation corpse, etc were the first steps of being able to guarantee people work. It doesn’t mean you are prescribed a job, it just means there is always something to fall back on if you need it

living wage = when combined with a job guarantee this means broadening the tax base and increasing the GDP, if you then also team this with population growth a lot more opportunities open up for our country, more people means everyone gets richer. Welfare can be eliminated, and in turn people who have medical conditions due to malnourishment, poor hygiene, and insufficient living conditions would drop precipitously

A decent home = We have more homes in this country then we do people, so this wouldn’t be hard, and like previous points - if all homes are occupied there is more taxable revenue. Everyone benefits. Homes sitting empty don’t provide the revenue that occupied homes do. This eliminates homelessness and the need for spending on affordable housing which admittedly is currently one of the most exploited and corrupt programs

medical care = Medicare for all, essentially. its no secret that our country is one of the least healthy in the world, which is the main reason we spend so much as compared to other countries- if everyone was covered under Medicare, price gouging could be eliminated and we could save tons of money on healthcare expenditures

Economic protection = essentially we return to companies providing pension plans and continue (as we already currently do) covering employees who can’t work because of accidents or health issues

education = the goalpost has moved here, K-12 used to be enough to guarantee a good paying job, this would just expand to include years 13-17. rather than spending money on interest payments, people could be spending money on better living conditions, which grows taxable income, spending contributes more to the economy instead of private loan companies
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How does a person that doesn’t want to work have a right to a job? What do you do with incorrigibles?

What is a living wage? Is it the same for a single 18yo straight out of HS as it is for a 45yo with 2 kids or does a persons life choices determine what their “living wage is”?

Who pays the mortgage/rent, maintenance on the home if it’s an entitlement?

Once everyone is going to college that degree means nothing anymore, it doesn’t make you anymore special than everyone else. It’s pretty much that way now.
 
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#332
#332
The Nazis played the Jews as both stupid and subhuman while at the same time being the source of all problems. It is a system of gaining power that’s been effective and tried many times. If you study the subject the people who employ it always appeal to emotional response and ultimately turn to violence.

The orange man has played right into their hands in this current push.
 
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#335
#335
canitpro said:
I commented on their work week — you chose to run that up the flag pole as me wanting our country to be France.

I outlined in my post on the 2nd Bill of Rights what I would advocate for, which is an adjustment within the bounds of our current system
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No way it is within the bounds of our current system. Go read the healthcare thread. M4A alone would require a 70% increase minimum in federal tax receipts as I showed. If you want to propose all of those benefits then you also have to propose a cost plan to pay for it.
 
#344
#344
hog88 said:
How does a person that doesn’t want to work have a right to a job? What do you do with incorrigibles?

What is a living wage? Is it the same for a single 18yo straight out of HS as it is for a 45yo with 2 kids or does a persons life choices determine what their “living wage is”?

Who pays the mortgage/rent, maintenance on the home if it’s an entitlement?

Once everyone is going to college that degree means nothing anymore, it doesn’t make you anymore special than everyone else. It’s pretty much that way now.
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you would be guaranteed a job, not free pay - you would still have to work to get payed.

living wage means you establish a higher minimum wage and then tie it to inflation. Latest research suggests it should be in the neighborhood of $16.50 an hour

you would be guaranteed a standard of living wage that makes a home affordable, not given a free home

similar with college, you would have the ability to go to an in-state college for free, that doesn’t mean everyone would choose to do that, people who want to go to an out of state college, or an Ivy League college would still have to pay. This wouldn’t change the landscape of colleges.Many state universities used to be very affordable if not close to free around the mid 20th century
 
#348
#348
canitpro said:
you would be guaranteed a job, not free pay - you would still have to work to get payed.

living wage means you establish a higher minimum wage and then tie it to inflation. Latest research suggests it should be in the neighborhood of $16.50 an hour

you would be guaranteed a standard of living wage that makes a home affordable, not given a free home

similar with college, you would have the ability to go to an in-state college for free, that doesn’t mean everyone would choose to do that, people who want to go to an out of state college, or an Ivy League college would still have to pay. This wouldn’t change the landscape of colleges.Many state universities used to be very affordable if not close to free around the mid 20th century
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If you’re guaranteed a job you are guaranteed pay. Now the question becomes are employers required to hire people? Say I fire you because you as useless as tits on a boar does someone else HAVE to hire you?

So with everyone guaranteed a job making $16.50 an hour what do you think inflation will do?

You think $16.50 an hour is going to pay for a home in NYC, Chicago, LA ext?
 
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#350
#350
canitpro said:
you would be guaranteed a job, not free pay - you would still have to work to get payed.

living wage means you establish a higher minimum wage and then tie it to inflation. Latest research suggests it should be in the neighborhood of $16.50 an hour

you would be guaranteed a standard of living wage that makes a home affordable, not given a free home

similar with college, you would have the ability to go to an in-state college for free, that doesn’t mean everyone would choose to do that, people who want to go to an out of state college, or an Ivy League college would still have to pay. This wouldn’t change the landscape of colleges.Many state universities used to be very affordable if not close to free around the mid 20th century
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How about umemployment benefits? Is their guaranteed wage scaled by family size?

Is a high school kid going to earn a “living wage” working the same fast food job as the 25 year old lady with two kids and no husband?

And Medicare for all? Did you read the cost estimates? That one item alone nearly doubles current tax receipts.

College is too expensive. Thanks .gov for making cheap loans available that can’t be dissolved by bankruptcy
 
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