'19 TN LB Kane Patterson (Clemson commit)

#301
#301
Septic said:
The devils advocate could say that law enforcement looked into every one of these things and walked away.
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That happens a whole lot in domestic violence cases and has little to do with the truth. Just because it is hard to prosecute does not mean that he didn't beat his pregnant wife. As for yer point about this case, on Nov 10th of 2015 Courtney was granted a restraining order against Zach so they obviously found some merit. Also, it would be weird if Urban didn't know about the restraining order all the way back to 2015.
 
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#302
#302
Septic said:
Law Enforcement did walk away, Courtney had to apply for the order and it was granted by the court. Smith was only arrested (July 18') after violating that order (after dropping his kids off). He was never arrested for any of his prior alleged abuses.
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He was never convicted. Which may be because his mentor, urb, has some pull in the towns where the incidents took place. And that the teams he was coaching for are pretty important to the people of those towns.
 
#303
#303
Septic said:
Law Enforcement did walk away, Courtney had to apply for the order and it was granted by the court. Smith was only arrested (July 18') after violating that order (after dropping his kids off). He was never arrested for any of his prior alleged abuses.
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I think you're splitting hairs.

I doubt very seriously that restraining orders are granted by the courts unless there is evidence to support or warrant it. If they do, wouldn't that smack of "guilty before being proven innocent"?
 
#304
#304
Sleegro said:
That happens a whole lot in domestic violence cases and has little to do with the truth. Just because it is hard to prosecute does not mean that he didn't beat his pregnant wife. As for yer point about this case, on Nov 10th of 2015 Courtney was granted a restraining order against Zach so they obviously found some merit. Also, it would be weird if Urban didn't know about the restraining order all the way back to 2015.
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Possibly. Law enforcement doesn't arrest folks (or not arrest them) based on the 'difficulty of prosecution', they are charged with enforcing the law - the State would be charged with prosecuting it. (Haven't you seen law and order?) All I'm saying is that if there wasn't enough evidence to arrest him, why would it be Urban's job to fire him over non-arrestable allegations? Again, I'm not defending Smith or Urban, just playing devils advocate.
 
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#305
#305
That is going to be Urb's main defense that the coach was never charged after these incidents. Don't know if that will be enough to save him in today's world. Doesn't help that the Big 10 has been reeling in scandals non-stop for a decade.
 
#306
#306
Septic said:
Possibly. Law enforcement doesn't arrest folks (or not arrest them) based on the 'difficulty of prosecution', they are charged with enforcing the law - the State would be charged with prosecuting it. (Haven't you seen law and order?) All I'm saying is that if there wasn't enough evidence to arrest him, why would it be Urban's job to fire him over non-arrestable allegations? Again, I'm not defending Smith or Urban, just playing devils advocate.
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Okay, law and order is what yer reference is here? Well this is a pointless debate. Go on NOT defending a guy who beat his pregnant wife and his boss who at the very least passively condoned it.
 
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#307
#307
WinginFlorida said:
I think you're splitting hairs.

I doubt very seriously that restraining orders are granted by the courts unless there is evidence to support or warrant it. If they do, wouldn't that smack of "guilty before being proven innocent"?
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How am I splitting hairs? I clearly stated law enforcement walked away because they did. Getting a restraining order against someone is not an adjudication of guilt for an alleged crime.
 
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#308
#308
Sleegro said:
Okay, law and order is what yer reference is here? Well this is a pointless debate. Go on NOT defending a guy who beat his pregnant wife and his boss who at the very least passively condoned it.
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Facts are the reference. You clearly have no idea how the legal system in America works.
 
#309
#309
bignewt said:
That is going to be Urb's main defense that the coach was never charged after these incidents. Don't know if that will be enough to save him in today's world. Doesn't help that the Big 10 has been reeling in scandals non-stop for a decade.
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He was charged a couple times, I just don't see any convictions and the charges were reduced to stalking and trespassing charges. Which happens a lot in domestic violence cases. There were a handful of police reports after they got to Ohio in 2012. In 2015 the day before the restraining order was granted and 3 weeks after he beat his pregnant wife, he was charged with menacing by stalking. There were more police incident reports in '16 and '17. Then a couple weeks ago he got a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespassing and a protective order was filed against him on 7/20. Nothing happened for 3 days until Brett McMurphy broke the initial story the morning of the 23rd. By that night OSU realized they couldn't hide from it anymore and he was fired.

New documents further detail timeline of Zach Smith's alleged abuse
 
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#314
#314
JCLawyerVol said:
Civil Protection Order aka no law enforcement involved.
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She was granted a restraining order against him 3 weeks after the incident in 2015. The protection order was after a separate incident last month. So he's had both.
 
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#315
#315
Sleegro said:
He was charged a couple times, I just don't see any convictions and the charges were reduced to stalking and trespassing charges. Which happens a lot in domestic violence cases. There were a handful of police reports after they got to Ohio in 2012. In 2015 the day before the restraining order was granted and 3 weeks after he beat his pregnant wife, he was charged with menacing by stalking. There were more police incident reports in '16 and '17. Then a couple weeks ago he got a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespassing and a protective order was filed against him on 7/20. Nothing happened for 3 days until Brett McMurphy broke the initial story the morning of the 23rd. By that night OSU realized they couldn't hide from it anymore and he was fired.

New documents further detail timeline of Zach Smith's alleged abuse
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Gotcha. I was thinking that he was never charged with domestic assault and he wasn't but yeah he is a P.O.S. that Urbs loves to surround himself with.
 
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#317
#317
WinginFlorida said:
You mean someone could get a Civil Protection Order with no "evidence"?
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Well, at least in TN, a temporary Order can be granted with only allegations and without the alleged perpetrator being present. Then the civil court has a hearing and determines if the respondent is a credible threat to the petitioner's safety based on a preponderance of the evidence standard, which is considerably lower than the criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.
 
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#319
#319
Sleegro said:
He was charged a couple times, I just don't see any convictions and the charges were reduced to stalking and trespassing charges. Which happens a lot in domestic violence cases. There were a handful of police reports after they got to Ohio in 2012. In 2015 the day before the restraining order was granted and 3 weeks after he beat his pregnant wife, he was charged with menacing by stalking. There were more police incident reports in '16 and '17. Then a couple weeks ago he got a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespassing and a protective order was filed against him on 7/20. Nothing happened for 3 days until Brett McMurphy broke the initial story the morning of the 23rd. By that night OSU realized they couldn't hide from it anymore and he was fired.

New documents further detail timeline of Zach Smith's alleged abuse
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Sleegro spitting the troof this AM.
 
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#320
#320
JCLawyerVol said:
Well, at least in TN, a temporary Order can be granted with only allegations and without the alleged perpetrator being present. Then the civil court has a hearing and determines if the respondent is a credible threat to the petitioner's safety based on a preponderance of the evidence standard, which is considerably lower than the criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Would you characterize the situation as "law enforcement walked away"?
 
#321
#321
By the way, I can't stand Urban and, aside from my one good friend who is from Ohio and is a big Ohio State fan, I wouldn't care if the state and the university disappeared.
 
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#322
#322
WinginFlorida said:
You mean someone could get a Civil Protection Order with no "evidence"?
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IANAL but any civil lawsuit, such as petitioning the court for a divorce could be grounds for a requesting a civil order.
 
#323
#323
WinginFlorida said:
Would you characterize the situation as "law enforcement walked away"?
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WinginFlorida said:
Would you characterize the situation as "law enforcement walked away"?
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I really don't know enough about the details of this to know whether they did or not. Generally, though, if police are called on a domestic situation, cannot determine the primary aggressor, and do not file assault charges and arrest the alleged perpetrator, yes.
 
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#325
#325
Septic said:
Possibly. Law enforcement doesn't arrest folks (or not arrest them) based on the 'difficulty of prosecution', they are charged with enforcing the law - the State would be charged with prosecuting it. (Haven't you seen law and order?) All I'm saying is that if there wasn't enough evidence to arrest him, why would it be Urban's job to fire him over non-arrestable allegations? Again, I'm not defending Smith or Urban, just playing devils advocate.
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Law enforcement is not immune to the "good ole boy's club". Many powerful people have avoided arrest and prosecution based on their status as power players. Coach was super powerful and being protected by powerful people. OSU fan police might be willing to overlook strong evidence if Urban Meyer places a phone call to them asking them to do so.
 
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