Tom Brady.....even better than I thought he was.

#251
#251
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
Never heard Manning say he was the best unless I missed it. They both on the surface acknowledge the others accomplishments. Again the teams at NE were more physical with veteran no-nonsense players with attitude like Brusci that mimicked their coach than the finesse Colts in those years and that is why NE was winning Sb’s. Brady was part of a team just like Peyton was at Denver his last year in their Sb win. Plus Brady was gifted two Sb’s against Atlanta and Seattle. He actually was very fortunate not to have 4 Suoerbowl losses.

Edit: Never talked about arm strength. Neither Manning and Montana were noted for arm strength and I do not believe it is a factor when discussing the best Qb’s of all time. All had the adequate arm strength to get the job done.
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Aaron Rodgers, John Elway and Dan Marino all have cannons. Save GOAT Brady, they're all in the same group with Manning and Montana
 
#252
#252
USAFgolferVol said:
Aaron Rodgers, John Elway and Dan Marino all have cannons. Save GOAT Brady, they're all in the same group with Manning and Montana
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Having a cannon is way down the list of the attributes that are important in discussing GOAT candidates. Montana, Manning. Staubach and probably others did not have great arm strength. Also Steve Young is another guy who should be in the discussion.
 
#253
#253
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
Having a cannon is way down the list of the attributes that are important in discussing GOAT candidates. Montana, Manning. Staubach and probably others did not have great arm strength. Also Steve Young is another guy who should be in the discussion.
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Yep, Young was an all timer gamer. Rodgers, Elway and Marino are all in the conversation in that group behind GOAT Brady
 
#254
#254
USAFgolferVol said:
Yep, Young was an all timer gamer. Rodgers, Elway and Marino are all in the conversation in that group behind GOAT Brady
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I would pick Montana, Manning, Young and probably Sfaubach for my team over Brady. The only thing Brady has going for him is the fountain of youth which is a head scratcher for someone not considered a great athlete.
 
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#258
#258
USAFgolferVol said:
Manning was terrible at 39. Brady is better at 44 than Manning was when he first went to Denver at 35
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I absolutely acknowledge Tom Brady as the GOAT, but Brady also never endured damage to his nerves that could have easily ended his career due to a complete inability to throw a football at all. While Peyton never had a cannon of an arm, the reason that his arm strength deteriorated so quickly was because of that injury.
 
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#259
#259
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
I would pick Montana, Manning, Young and probably Sfaubach for my team over Brady. The only thing Brady has going for him is the fountain of youth which is a head scratcher for someone not considered a great athlete.
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Quarterbacks only need a sound arm and a solid mind. No other athletic ability needed. See Tom Brady, for example. I am actually surprised others haven’t played well into their 40s. Frankly I think I many cases management phased them out because they just didn’t want a 40 year old QB. And players may just get tired of football as their sole purpose in life after 20 years.
 
#260
#260
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
Never heard Manning say he was the best unless I missed it. They both on the surface acknowledge the others accomplishments. Again the teams at NE were more physical with veteran no-nonsense players with attitude like Brusci that mimicked their coach than the finesse Colts in those years and that is why NE was winning Sb’s. Brady was part of a team just like Peyton was at Denver his last year in their Sb win. Plus Brady was gifted two Sb’s against Atlanta and Seattle. He actually was very fortunate not to have 4 Suoerbowl losses.

Edit: Never talked about arm strength. Neither Manning and Montana were noted for arm strength and I do not believe it is a factor when discussing the best Qb’s of all time. All had the adequate arm strength to get the job done.
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Proving once again like most people on this board that you know nothing about New England. The rest of your post is just more inane blather, by your logic then noodle arm Manning only gets credit for one SB win in Indy.
 
#261
#261
HoptownVol said:
Proving once again like most people on this board that you know nothing about New England. The rest of your post is just more inane blather, by your logic then noodle arm Manning only gets credit for one SB win in Indy.
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Lol. You’re a funny guy unless the bold face means you are serious. It is exactly why they won Sb’s in the early 2000’s specifically their edge over Manning’s Colts. It is you who are proving you know little about the gane.
 
#262
#262
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
Lol. You’re a funny guy unless the bold face means you are serious. It is exactly why they won Sb’s in the early 2000’s specifically their edge over Manning’s Colts. It is you who are proving you know little about the gane.
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I had Pats season tickets for 26 years you numbskull, like I said these "powerhouse, physically dominant" teams only exist in your mind. The edge over Manning is still taking snaps in Tampa. And I think I'll take your cue here, Peyton won one Super Bowl during his career, thats the only one that counts according to your demented calculus.
 
#263
#263
HoptownVol said:
I had Pats season tickets for 26 years you numbskull, like I said these "powerhouse, physically dominant" teams only exist in your mind. The edge over Manning is still taking snaps in Tampa. And I think I'll take your cue here, Peyton won one Super Bowl during his career, thats the only one that counts according to your demented calculus.
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Actually Peyton won 2 but it doesn't matter. Brady is the GOAT and sits on a rung by himself. Peyton is in a group behind that include a few others. I've already wasted too much time arguing with Abingdon. He's deluded and low info
 
#264
#264
Bill Belichick has coached 9 seasons without Tom Brady as his QB. 1991-1995, 2000, 2008 (brady was injured in week 1), 2020-2021.
He coached with Brady as his starting QB for 18 seasons.

His playoff record without Tom Brady as his QB is 1-2. 9 seasons. 1 win.

Brady has played 1+ season(s) without Belichick as his head coach. His playoff record is 5-0.

If Tampa defeats Arizona or LA next week and Brady is healthy, he would be starting in his 15th conference championship game.

I know Belichick can coach and can still coach. But, I have come to believe now that at the professional level, it's definitely the players. Everyone gushed over Gregg Popovich for years and the man hasn't won jack since Tim Duncan retired.
 
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#265
#265
99gator said:
Bill Belichick has coached 9 seasons without Tom Brady as his QB. 1991-1995, 2000, 2008 (brady was injured in week 1), 2020-2021.
He coached with Brady as his starting QB for 18 seasons.

His playoff record without Tom Brady as his QB is 1-2. 9 seasons. 1 win.

Brady has played 1+ season(s) without Belichick as his head coach. His playoff record is 5-0.

If Tampa defeats Arizona or LA next week and Brady is healthy, he would be starting in his 15th conference championship game.

I know Belichick can coach and can still coach. But, I have come to believe now that at the professional level, it's definitely the players. Everyone gushed over Gregg Popovich for years and the man hasn't won jack since Tim Duncan retired.
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Agreed. The best coaches in pros are simply the ones who can put the best pieces in the best places.
 
#266
#266
99gator said:
Bill Belichick has coached 9 seasons without Tom Brady as his QB. 1991-1995, 2000, 2008 (brady was injured in week 1), 2020-2021.
He coached with Brady as his starting QB for 18 seasons.

His playoff record without Tom Brady as his QB is 1-2. 9 seasons. 1 win.

Brady has played 1+ season(s) without Belichick as his head coach. His playoff record is 5-0.

If Tampa defeats Arizona or LA next week and Brady is healthy, he would be starting in his 15th conference championship game.

I know Belichick can coach and can still coach. But, I have come to believe now that at the professional level, it's definitely the players. Everyone gushed over Gregg Popovich for years and the man hasn't won jack since Tim Duncan retired.
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We’re also talking about a once in a century type QB. Of course it takes players, but coaches definitely help. Nobody will ever do what Tom Brady has done.
 
#267
#267
Orange931 said:
We’re also talking about a once in a century type QB. Of course it takes players, but coaches definitely help. Nobody will ever do what Tom Brady has done.
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It took the right player and the perfect situation. The AFC East was dogshit for 20 years, so they had a playoff spot, a first-round bye, and at least one home playoff game basically every year. They also had lots of really good luck (too many instances to name) and just a little bit of bad luck (Tyree catch).

Brady was willing to play for less than market value, which was huge for them. Belichick's philosophy was to choose depth over star power, which is one reason why they always peaked in the playoffs when other teams' lack of depth was showing.

Another reason the Pats peaked in the playoffs was Belichick always forces his defensive players to learn all the techniques, so in September and October when some teams are peaking because they stick to what they're good at, the Patriots are trying everything so that when January rolls around, they got a lot more that they're good at, and BB can trust his guys to implement whatever defensive game plan the opponent calls for.

Tom Brady was amazing and clutch but I saw a stat that showed Tom Brady's playoff record without a top 10 defense (I wish I could remember what it was) and it wasn't exactly great. We'll never see another run like that.
 
#268
#268
Years ranking outside top 10 defense (both points and yards):

2002 - missed playoffs
2005 - lost in divisional
2011 - lost in SB

Years ranking top 10 in just one of the categories:

2001 - won SB
2009 - lost in wild card
2010 - lost in divisional
2012 - lost in AFCCG
2013 - lost in AFCCG
2014 - won SB
2017 - lost in SB
2018 - won SB

Years ranking top 10 in both:

2003 - won SB
2004 - won SB
2006 - lost in AFCCG
2007 - lost in SB
2016 - won SB
2019 - lost in wild card
2020 - won SB
 
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#269
#269
ABINGDON VOL FAN said:
I would pick Montana, Manning, Young and probably Sfaubach for my team over Brady. The only thing Brady has going for him is the fountain of youth which is a head scratcher for someone not considered a great athlete.
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There are many QBs I’d pick over Brady. He’s just been at the right place at the right time. He has an average skill set. He wouldn’t have survived back in the 70s and 80s when defenses were allowed to tackle the QB.
 
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#270
#270
HoptownVol said:
I've already explained to you that I'm not wasting my time on anybody dense enough to think Manning could have walked into the Pats organization and won 6 Super Bowls. Hell I doubt you can find another person on planet earth that agrees with that absurd premise, even Peyton himself would be laughing at that.
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I’m one other person on this planet who believes this. I think many QBs could have won 6 SBs with the Pats. Brady had very little to do with half of the SBs they won. The last one against the Rams? Come on Brady sucked in that game. He gets way too much credit for his teams success. He sucked in the first SB against the Rams too. Wow. 140 yards passing. Should have never been there to begin with due to the tuck rule. He’s clearly had success but he’s not all that either. Every single break has gone his way. Give the ball to lynch at the one and he loses another. He’s a whiney, crybaby princess who has benefited from being on great teams including the Bucs. Mr Dink and Dunk 5 yard pass. Never been impressed.
 
#271
#271
Volizona said:
I’m one other person on this planet who believes this. I think many QBs could have won 6 SBs with the Pats. Brady had very little to do with half of the SBs they won. The last one against the Rams? Come on Brady sucked in that game. He gets way too much credit for his teams success. He sucked in the first SB against the Rams too. Wow. 140 yards passing. Should have never been there to begin with due to the tuck rule. He’s clearly had success but he’s not all that either. Every single break has gone his way. Give the ball to lynch at the one and he loses another. He’s a whiney, crybaby princess who has benefited from being on great teams including the Bucs. Mr Dink and Dunk 5 yard pass. Never been impressed.
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LOL OK whatever newbie.
 
#272
#272
HoptownVol said:
Lord have mercy. My opinions are based on what Brady has already accomplished, your silly hypothetical "opinions" aren't based in reality but what some other QB could have done under different circumstances. Like I said, idiotic.
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That’s why we have a problem. What Brady has accomplished? Is he the only one who played in the SBs. How about the kicker who won half of the SBs? How about the defense that carried them? Yes, many other QBs could have stepped in and also won. He doesn’t have the skill set to carry a really crappy team. He’s only played on real good teams.
 
#273
#273
HoptownVol said:
LOL OK whatever newbie.
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No bias from you being from Boston, huh? I’m just looking at it objectively. Brady doesn’t have the physical talent of Mahommes or Rogers or Marino or Elway. He does seem to have some kind of mental toughness though. I’ll give him that.
 
#274
#274
Volizona said:
That’s why we have a problem. What Brady has accomplished? Is he the only one who played in the SBs. How about the kicker who won half of the SBs? How about the defense that carried them? Yes, many other QBs could have stepped in and also won. He doesn’t have the skill set to carry a really crappy team. He’s only played on real good teams.
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No you're the one with the problem, and no not all of those squads were "real good" teams, and that goes especially for the 2020 team that was 7-5 at the end of November. Sheez.
 
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