Tom Brady.....even better than I thought he was.

[HoptownVol]

No bias from you being from Boston, huh? I’m just looking at it objectively. Brady doesn’t have the physical talent of Mahommes or Rogers or Marino or Elway. He does seem to have some kind of mental toughness though. I’ll give him that.

I was born in Nashville and live in Middle so you can put down the crack pipe now. No "physical talent" yet still setting records at 44, I can only imagine what he would be capable of if he had any talent!

 

[HoptownVol]

Manning wasn’t eating avocado on toast or whatever Brady’s quack doctor is giving him. Also the refs never allow anyone to touch little Tommy so having very few hard hits in his career has allowed him to play longer.

619 career sacks, yet the physical hardship was too much for Manning and he checked out after 343 sacks. Must be something to all this avocado stuff??

 

[n_huffhines]

I was born in Nashville and live in Middle so you can put down the crack pipe now. No "physical talent" yet still setting records at 44, I can only imagine what he would be capable of if he had any talent!

Did he say "no physical talent" or not the talent of Mahomes, Rodgers, Marino, or Elway...because he's not even close to those guys in terms of physical talent. He throws a great ball, but that's it. Marino has the all-time on-platform arm. Elway, Rodgers, and Mahomes are absolute playmakers. Brady is the death by a thousand cuts guy, and he has the greatest resume of all time because of it. It's OK to say he's not as physically talented as guys who are clearly more talented than him.

I can readily admit that Manning is probably the worst physical talent among the all-time greats, but that's kind of what makes him awesome. Put his brain in Elway's body.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Beyond that, with the exception of Gronk, Brady has played with crap on the offensive side of the ball for the vast majority of his career.

Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, etc., aren't winning a damn thing throwing the ball to Julian Edelman, Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Troy Brown, etc. John Elway is the only guy close on this front and on the back end of his career he had Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe.

What a dumb comment my god.

Gronk
Randy Moss
Troy Brown
Corey Dillon
Wes Welker
Julian Edelman
Deion Branch
Amendola
Donte Stallworth
Ben Watson
James White

I mean the list goes on and on dude

Gronk, Moss, Dillon are all definite Hall of fame guys. Yes Dillon is. Had over 11 thousand rushing yards.

Others like Wes Welker could be hall of famers one day.

It's not like they're all garbage players that he magically turned into pro bowlers. The dudes got open didn't they??
I mean Kevin Faulk and Dion Lewis aren't incredible players but it's not like they're bad AT ALL.

Then you saying something about the players on the early 2000's defense not being that great???

Tedy Beuschi
Richard Seymour
Lawyer Malloy
Mike Vrabel
Willie McGinnist
Rodney Harrison
Asante Samuel
Ty Law

All being coached by one of the greatest defensive minds ever in football. Belichick.

Not to mention their incredible offensive line and continuity with guys like Josh McDaniels.

They've always had great players and great coaching and it's insane how they pulled it off. Remember when they went 11-5 with Matt Cassel?

Still though Tom Brady is super human.

 

[n_huffhines]

Beyond that, with the exception of Gronk, Brady has played with crap on the offensive side of the ball for the vast majority of his career.

Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, etc., aren't winning a damn thing throwing the ball to Julian Edelman, Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Troy Brown, etc. John Elway is the only guy close on this front and on the back end of his career he had Terrell Davis and Shannon Sharpe.

First of all, Peyton Manning won a SB when he could barely throw the football, indicating that maybe having elite defense is the best way to win a SB, so yeah, I think those guys could succeed with the best D in the league throwing to Brown and Branch.

Brady gets credit for maximizing WR's who are not stars, but I watched basically all his games and those dudes are open all the time in the Patriot's system. He might be throwing to 5' 9" white guys, but nobody's within 10 yards of them and they're standing in the middle of the field.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

I've already explained to you that I'm not wasting my time on anybody dense enough to think Manning could have walked into the Pats organization and won 6 Super Bowls. Hell I doubt you can find another person on planet earth that agrees with that absurd premise, even Peyton himself would be laughing at that.

He most certainly could have.

Thats not absurd at all.

Did you watch freaking watch him single handedly carry the Colts to 13-3 season after 13-3 season and completely transform the Broncos into title contenders the moment he walked through those doors? Note, the Colts were like 2-14 without Peyton the moment he left.

He and Brady are very similar in the way they approach football.

So please explain how Peyton Manning would somehow mess up what Tom Brady accomplished?

You're acting like the Pats would just be utter trash with Peyton. Would the Colts win 6 super bowls with Brady? With their crap defense, Mora, Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell? Brady had Belichick who is arguably the best defensive coordinator of all time winning those super bowls with the Giants and guiding all those incredible Patriot defenses.

Who were the ONLY defenses that could stop Manning at ALL. That's how great a coach he was and how great the players he had on defense were.

The only thing you could say is Peyton's control freak nature would somehow mess it up or maybe he'd run out of time with the neck issue and not be able to play long enough to get to 6 super bowl wins.

But you're being silly in thinking it's laughable to see a scenario where Peyton would be able to get them 6 super bowl wins. I mean it's not like he would have to deal with the best organization in pro sports history or anything....

 

[n_huffhines]

Peyton played with a lot of stars, but the list doesn't include very many guys who did much elsewhere. Garcon had a few good years in Washington. Reggie Wayne was good with Luck. Welker was better with Brady. That's basically the list. Marvin Harrison, D Thomas, Decker, J Thomas, E Sanders, Pollard, Stokley, Collie, Edge, Addai, Rhodes, and Dallas Clark all had clearly their best years with Peyton.

Julius Thomas had 24 TD's with Peyton Manning in '13 and '14 and had 12 the entire rest of his career. Peyton Manning was the #1 way to make your next paycheck bigger.

 

[99gator]

What a dumb comment my god.

Gronk (HOF, no doubt)
Randy Moss (played with for a season)
Troy Brown (stop, just stop)
Corey Dillon (played with for a season)
Wes Welker (seriously)
Julian Edelman (seriously?)
Deion Branch (Alonzo Mourning played with Mugsy Bogues too)
Amendola (you're out of your damn mind)
Donte Stallworth (I know he's a Vol and all, but no)
Ben Watson (lol)
James White (c'mon man)

See above

 

[HoptownVol]

He most certainly could have.

Thats not absurd at all.

Did you watch freaking watch him single handedly carry the Colts to 13-3 season after 13-3 season and completely transform the Broncos into title contenders the moment he walked through those doors? Note, the Colts were like 2-14 without Peyton the moment he left.

He and Brady are very similar in the way they approach football.

So please explain how Peyton Manning would somehow mess up what Tom Brady accomplished?

You're acting like the Pats would just be utter trash with Peyton. Would the Colts win 6 super bowls with Brady? With their crap defense, Mora, Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell? Brady had Belichick who is arguably the best defensive coordinator of all time winning those super bowls with the Giants and guiding all those incredible Patriot defenses.

Who were the ONLY defenses that could stop Manning at ALL. That's how great a coach he was and how great the players he had on defense were.

The only thing you could say is Peyton's control freak nature would somehow mess it up or maybe he'd run out of time with the neck issue and not be able to play long enough to get to 6 super bowl wins.

But you're being silly in thinking it's laughable to see a scenario where Peyton would be able to get them 6 super bowl wins. I mean it's not like he would have to deal with the best organization in pro sports history or anything....

The only thing Manning would have done in New England is take more sacks and throw more INTs. My only issue with this totally mindless argument is the insistence that not only Peyton might have won 6 SBs for the Pats, but that he most certainly WOULD HAVE, which is ludicrous. Why don't you give Manning credit for 9 Super Bowl appearances in NE while you're at it, or maybe Peyton would have won another championship in Tampa last year with the lowly Bucs? Come on, extend this thing out so we can see how far this stupidity stretches.

 

[HoptownVol]

Did he say "no physical talent" or not the talent of Mahomes, Rodgers, Marino, or Elway...because he's not even close to those guys in terms of physical talent. He throws a great ball, but that's it. Marino has the all-time on-platform arm. Elway, Rodgers, and Mahomes are absolute playmakers. Brady is the death by a thousand cuts guy, and he has the greatest resume of all time because of it. It's OK to say he's not as physically talented as guys who are clearly more talented than him.

I can readily admit that Manning is probably the worst physical talent among the all-time greats, but that's kind of what makes him awesome. Put his brain in Elway's body.

I don't need an interpreter. And no one ever said Marino was a great "physical talent," he had a great arm...physical he was not.

And this "death by a thousand cuts" nonsense is just that, nonsense. You're free to go dive into the stats then you can come back and apologize.

 

[ABINGDON VOL FAN]

Tom Brady brought a whole new attitude to the Buccaneers that hadn't been there for 15 years.

Which other elite Qb’s could have done.

 

[n_huffhines]

The only thing Manning would have done in New England is take more sacks and throw more INTs. My only issue with this totally mindless argument is the insistence that not only Peyton might have won 6 SBs for the Pats, but that he most certainly WOULD HAVE, which is ludicrous. Why don't you give Manning credit for 9 Super Bowl appearances in NE while you're at it, or maybe Peyton would have won another championship in Tampa last year with the lowly Bucs? Come on, extend this thing out so we can see how far this stupidity stretches.

The lowly Bucs? They had a really talented roster and a good coaching staff. Not taking anything away from what Brady did for them, but they were stacked from the perspective of a QB.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

See above

Randy played there for three years. Corey played there three years.

Wes Welker and Julian Eldelman are two of the greatest slot receivers of all time.

Did you just see what Danny Amendola did to the Titans two weeks ago at 36 years old?

Did Tom Brady run those routes where they were wide open all game every game they played in the NFL?

Everyone I listed was a good player like...are you blind or just slow because you have a gator brain?

Do you think all those guys are just practice squad players if it weren't for Brady's superiority? What insane parameters do you have for someone to be good?

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

The only thing Manning would have done in New England is take more sacks and throw more INTs. My only issue with this totally mindless argument is the insistence that not only Peyton might have won 6 SBs for the Pats, but that he most certainly WOULD HAVE, which is ludicrous. Why don't you give Manning credit for 9 Super Bowl appearances in NE while you're at it, or maybe Peyton would have won another championship in Tampa last year with the lowly Bucs? Come on, extend this thing out so we can see how far this stupidity stretches.

Take more sacks? Peyton was like never sacked. What the hell are you talking about? Maybe more INT's. Which would also come with more passing yards and touchdowns.

He very easily could have. Do you just not understand how freaking good Peyton Manning was? It's very easy to think that if you put him in the greatest organization in professional sports history there would also be an absurd amount of success. Idk how with Belichick, all the coaching and player and culture talent around, it would be Peyton that would be the weak link lololol

 

[99gator]

Randy played there for three years. Corey played there three years.

Wes Welker and Julian Eldelman are two of the greatest slot receivers of all time.

Did you just see what Danny Amendola did to the Titans two weeks ago at 36 years old?

Did Tom Brady run those routes where they were wide open all game every game they played in the NFL?

Everyone I listed was a good player like...are you blind or just slow because you have a gator brain?

Do you think all those guys are just practice squad players if it weren't for Brady's superiority? What insane parameters do you have for someone to be good?

He played with Randy for 2 as Brady was hurt in 2008. He did play with Corey for 3 and Corey was good in 2004 and mediocre at best in 2005 and 2006.

Keep in mind, Brady has played for 20 seasons.

Nobody, nowhere, builds their offense around 5'9 slot receivers who can't threaten a defense past 5 yards downfield. Nobody. Do you know how I know that? Amendola and Welker were not drafted. Edelman was taken in the 7th round. Brady and the Pats made it work. Wes Welker caught one TD in 3 seasons before playing with Brady.

You don't see anyone on draft day looking for Julian Edelman or Danny Amendola. They're looking for Jamar Chase, Odell Beckham, AJ Green, DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones, Devante Adams, Calvin Ridley, Amari Cooper, Stefon Diggs, Justin Jefferson, Michael Thomas, etc.

All the other great QB's who have ever played, played with a WR like that. Brady had it for 2 seasons in New England with Randy Moss and he has it now in Tampa. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin are head and shoulders better than anyone he played with in New England except Moss. It's not close.

Cole Beasley is Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman. Beasley just happened not to play with Brady,

Oh, by the way. Cole Beasley.....also not drafted.

 

[zjcvols]

Take more sacks? Peyton was like never sacked. What the hell are you talking about? Maybe more INT's. Which would also come with more passing yards and touchdowns.

He very easily could have. Do you just not understand how freaking good Peyton Manning was? It's very easy to think that if you put him in the greatest organization in professional sports history there would also be an absurd amount of success. Idk how with Belichick, all the coaching and player and culture talent around, it would be Peyton that would be the weak link lololol

Because Peyton and Belichick would have completely clashed personality wise. Playing for Belichick is extremely hard. Look at Peyton’s coaches after Mora. Dungy, Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak. Low, easy keel guys that basically let Peyton do whatever he want on offense. Not sure Peyton would like playing for Belichick.

 

[n_huffhines]

Because Peyton and Belichick would have completely clashed personality wise. Playing for Belichick is extremely hard. Look at Peyton’s coaches after Mora. Dungy, Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak. Low, easy keel guys that basically let Peyton do whatever he want on offense. Not sure Peyton would like playing for Belichick.

Why does that mean they would clash, tho? Peyton got along with everybody, including Gase, who no one likes. BB and Brady did clash and it was OK.

 

[n_huffhines]

He played with Randy for 2 as Brady was hurt in 2008. He did play with Corey for 3 and Corey was good in 2004 and mediocre at best in 2005 and 2006.

Keep in mind, Brady has played for 20 seasons.

Nobody, nowhere, builds their offense around 5'9 slot receivers who can't threaten a defense past 5 yards downfield. Nobody. Do you know how I know that? Amendola and Welker were not drafted. Edelman was taken in the 7th round. Brady and the Pats made it work. Wes Welker caught one TD in 3 seasons before playing with Brady.

You don't see anyone on draft day looking for Julian Edelman or Danny Amendola. They're looking for Jamar Chase, Odell Beckham, AJ Green, DeAndre Hopkins, Julio Jones, Devante Adams, Calvin Ridley, Amari Cooper, Stefon Diggs, Justin Jefferson, Michael Thomas, etc.

All the other great QB's who have ever played, played with a WR like that. Brady had it for 2 seasons in New England with Randy Moss and he has it now in Tampa. Mike Evans and Chris Godwin are head and shoulders better than anyone he played with in New England except Moss. It's not close.

Cole Beasley is Danny Amendola and Julian Edelman. Beasley just happened not to play with Brady,

Oh, by the way. Cole Beasley.....also not drafted.

Amendola was just as good in DET and MIA as he was in NE. Beasley is making $7m per year. These guys can play. They aren't scrubs.

The Patriots spent $ elsewhere. You are saying he is the only great QB to play without a great WR most of his career, and he's also the only one with a million playoff wins and SB appearances. Maybe literally every other team is doing it wrong (I think they are).

 

[99gator]

Amendola was just as good in DET and MIA as he was in NE. Beasley is making $7m per year. These guys can play. They aren't scrubs.

The Patriots spent $ elsewhere. You are saying he is the only great QB to play without a great WR most of his career, and he's also the only one with a million playoff wins and SB appearances. Maybe literally every other team is doing it wrong (I think they are).

You’re getting into technicalities here. I mean if you are in the NFL, by definition you aren’t a scrub.

But, the skill position talent has not been the same as what is on other rosters.

I didn’t even get into the fact that while he had Gronk, Gronk is perpetually injured.

For all the talk about offensive styles and schemes, the NFL has generally worked like the following for most everyone.

I have a star player. You can’t cover the star player. You have to do unique things in order to account for my star player. As such, it opens up the entire offense for everybody else. This is Kansas City. For as great as Mahomes is, what causes immediate issues is no one can cover Hill and you have to worry about him getting deep beyond the fact you can’t cover him and no one can cover Kelce.

And most every team has always existed that way. Others like the 90’s Cowboys were based on the fact that you couldn’t stop the run and had to load the box and Aikman knew he could go wherever he wanted to with the ball whenever he wanted.

In large measure, for the patriots, Gronk was that guy I am talking about, but again he’s been injured a ton.

but, the patriots (except for moss) have not had running backs or wide receivers that cause those kind of issues.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Randy played there for three years. Corey played there three years.

Wes Welker and Julian Eldelman are two of the greatest slot receivers of all time.

Did you just see what Danny Amendola did to the Titans two weeks ago at 36 years old?

Did Tom Brady run those routes where they were wide open all game every game they played in the NFL?

Everyone I listed was a good player like...are you blind or just slow because you have a gator brain?

Do you think all those guys are just practice squad players if it weren't for Brady's superiority? What insane parameters do you have for someone to be good?

And doubtful either will be in the HOF, esepcially Edelman.

What Amendola says more about the Titans' defensive effort that day instead of him considering he didn't come remotely close to having another performance like that this season.

 

[n_huffhines]

You’re getting into technicalities here. I mean if you are in the NFL, by definition you aren’t a scrub.

But, the skill position talent has not been the same as what is on other rosters.

I didn’t even get into the fact that while he had Gronk, Gronk is perpetually injured.

For all the talk about offensive styles and schemes, the NFL has generally worked like the following for most everyone.

I have a star player. You can’t cover the star player. You have to do unique things in order to account for my star player. As such, it opens up the entire offense for everybody else. This is Kansas City. For as great as Mahomes is, what causes immediate issues is no one can cover Hill and you have to worry about him getting deep beyond the fact you can’t cover him and no one can cover Kelce.

And most every team has always existed that way. Others like the 90’s Cowboys were based on the fact that you couldn’t stop the run and had to load the box and Aikman knew he could go wherever he wanted to with the ball whenever he wanted.

In large measure, for the patriots, Gronk was that guy I am talking about, but again he’s been injured a ton.

but, the patriots (except for moss) have not had running backs or wide receivers that cause those kind of issues.

They're not "scrubs" compared to other NFL players. They are well above average WR's. $7m makes Beasley the 18th most paid WR in the entire NFL.

The guys are always open. You can say whatever you want about the talent of the weapons during the BB/Brady run, but they had mostly awesome defense and guys were always open.

I'm not taking anything away from what Brady has accomplished with his weapons. It's awesome. I'm just saying they cracked the code to winning the postseason and all these other teams who spend 25% of their salary cap on offensive weapons + 10-15% on the QB are usually done by the divisional round. Philip Rivers is a hall of famer who played with LT, Gates, several legitimate #1 WR's, and he won 5 playoff games in his career.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

They're not "scrubs" compared to other NFL players. They are well above average WR's. $7m makes Beasley the 18th most paid WR in the entire NFL.

The guys are always open. You can say whatever you want about the talent of the weapons during the BB/Brady run, but they had mostly awesome defense and guys were always open.

I'm not taking anything away from what Brady has accomplished with his weapons. It's awesome. I'm just saying they cracked the code to winning the postseason and all these other teams who spend 25% of their salary cap on offensive weapons + 10-15% on the QB are usually done by the divisional round. Philip Rivers is a hall of famer who played with LT, Gates, several legitimate #1 WR's, and he won 5 playoff games in his career.

The Pats had stacked rosters and coaching staffs the entire time and it's blatantly obvious if you're trying to be at least a little objective.

 

[n_huffhines]

And doubtful either will be in the HOF, esepcially Edelman.

What Amendola says more about the Titans' defensive effort that day instead of him considering he didn't come remotely close to having another performance like that this season.

I would say Welker is probably in. The stats are pretty good (900, 10k, and 50). He also revolutionized the slot position.

Edelman would probably be in if he hadn't been playing back up to Welker for the first 4 years of his career. He had 69 catches in 4 years, then Welker leaves and he has 105 the next year.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The Pats had stacked rosters and coaching staffs the entire time and it's blatantly obvious if you're trying to be at least a little objective.

Coaching staffs sure, but if you're trying to be a least a little bit objective you'd realize the "stacked roster" is an after the fact observation aka hindsight is 20/20. You argue until you're blue in the face but while it was happening nobody was acting like Brady had a ton of weapons on offense with most of those guys.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Coaching staffs sure, but if you're trying to be a least a little bit objective you'd realize the "stacked roster" is an after the fact observation aka hindsight is 20/20. You argue until you're blue in the face but while it was happening nobody was acting like Brady had a ton of weapons on offense with most of those guys.

You guys be objective! Yall are acting like he won with a bunch of practice squad players.

The only think he didn't have much of were all pro big receivers like Randy Moss his entire career.

But it doesn't matter when there's talent across the board that fits a winning system.