Top 7 Scorers for KenSucky will Declare for NBA Draft

#51
#51
TNsnyper20 said:
Where have I ever said he deserved to be fired? I simply said he's an Average coach who bring in big talent.

But If I'm asnwering your question.... Donnie Tyndall :whistling::)
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No UK fan is gonna argue he's better than Coach K. But to act like because he "only" gets to the Final Four with his teams. But how often does the #1 recruiting class go along with winning a title? You can't really research that too much, but not often I'd guess. How many teams win it with the number of freshman we play? Hardly any. Duke is one of the first others, and they still got help from some experienced guys. Bottom line is you can act like other winning the title should be the standard of measuring, and only that. But at the end of the day, he successfully recruits the best players, builds an extremely young team, and almost always gets them to go along with the system. If Coach K hadn't won the title, and Wisc did...It'd be hard to argue how Duke has been even close to UK in the last 6 years. Outside of 2013 we've been very consistent during the tourney.
 
#52
#52
LittleCat said:
No UK fan is gonna argue he's better than Coach K. But to act like because he "only" gets to the Final Four with his teams. But how often does the #1 recruiting class go along with winning a title? You can't really research that too much, but not often I'd guess. How many teams win it with the number of freshman we play? Hardly any. Duke is one of the first others, and they still got help from some experienced guys. Bottom line is you can act like other winning the title should be the standard of measuring, and only that. But at the end of the day, he successfully recruits the best players, builds an extremely young team, and almost always gets them to go along with the system. If Coach K hadn't won the title, and Wisc did...It'd be hard to argue how Duke has been even close to UK in the last 6 years. Outside of 2013 we've been very consistent during the tourney.
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Getting to the points in the tourney where is at is great. And if he didn't have 3-4 first round draft grades on each of his team I would completely agree with you. Winning the title isn't the standard of measurement.... however when you have essentially an NBA team playing at the college level you really don't have any excuses not to. That's all I'm getting at. Now you replace all these NBA caliber players with some average players and he still continues to get them to the sweet 16 and elite 8 consistently Iw ould agree with you. But that's not the case.
 
#53
#53
TNsnyper20 said:
Take off the blue glasses and take a long hard look. Surely you can agree he's an overated x's and o's guy. If you can't then you are the one full of BS...
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I would actually say he's an underrated one, since about 90% of America feels the way you do but he's actually pretty good. He's not the best, but you don't get hired as an NBA coach (or have the success he's had in college) without being well above average.
 
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#54
#54
TNsnyper20 said:
Getting to the points in the tourney where is at is great. And if he didn't have 3-4 first round draft grades on each of his team I would completely agree with you. Winning the title isn't the standard of measurement.... however when you have essentially an NBA team playing at the college level you really don't have any excuses not to. That's all I'm getting at. Now you replace all these NBA caliber players with some average players and he still continues to get them to the sweet 16 and elite 8 consistently Iw ould agree with you. But that's not the case.
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2010-11

Coach K: Kyrie Irving, Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Seth Curry (6 NBA players)

Calipari: Brandon Knight, DeAndre Liggins, Darius Miller, Terrence Jones, Josh Harrellson, Doron Lamb

Guess who went to the Final Four? He's not better than K, but he's better than you think.
 
#55
#55
TNsnyper20 said:
Getting to the points in the tourney where is at is great. And if he didn't have 3-4 first round draft grades on each of his team I would completely agree with you. Winning the title isn't the standard of measurement.... however when you have essentially an NBA team playing at the college level you really don't have any excuses not to. That's all I'm getting at. Now you replace all these NBA caliber players with some average players and he still continues to get them to the sweet 16 and elite 8 consistently Iw ould agree with you. But that's not the case.
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So if he had won the title this year, what would you think of him? That all of sudden he goes from average to elite? You don't get 38 wins twice with average coaching, nba or not. Part of coaching is recruiting. It isn't like Duke is winning titles with a bunch of 2 and 3*s. Even Jefferson and Allen off the bench are high ranked recruits.
 
#56
#56
VKAman said:
2010-11

Coach K: Kyrie Irving, Nolan Smith, Kyle Singler, Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Seth Curry (6 NBA players)

Calipari: Brandon Knight, DeAndre Liggins, Darius Miller, Terrence Jones, Josh Harrellson, Doron Lamb

Guess who went to the Final Four? He's not better than K, but he's better than you think.
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I mean, in all fairness all 6 of those UK guys went to the NBA. 4 of them are out though now. Not sure about Kelly, Smith, other Curry bro.
 
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#57
#57
LittleCat said:
So if he had won the title this year, what would you think of him? That all of sudden he goes from average to elite? You don't get 38 wins twice with average coaching, nba or not. Part of coaching is recruiting. It isn't like Duke is winning titles with a bunch of 2 and 3*s. Even Jefferson and Allen off the bench are high ranked recruits.
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No, not at all... But he would have def met expectations. His issue is when he meets a coach who has a team that plays together he gets in trouble. Every year. His coaching isn't up to par and the talent he has on the team carries them. There is no doubt that team was talented, easily the most talented team I've seen in years, and I give those players all the respect in the world for what they acheived. Because I honestly believed they achieved that without the type of coaching they deserved. You don't let your players watch tape on the team they are about to play? You don't help them break that team down to prpare them? You just let your team "play"? Come on man..
 
#58
#58
So expectations are to win a title every year he gets a #1 recruiting class? And if he doesn't then he underachieved? lol
 
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#60
#60
LittleCat said:
So expectations are to win a title every year he gets a #1 recruiting class? And if he doesn't then he underachieved? lol
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You had returning players in Both Harrisons, Lee, WCS, and Johnson. To that you add Booker, Lyles, Towns, and Ulis. So don't act like it was just his recruiting class is pulling the weight here. Not winning it all with that team is underachieving.
 
#61
#61
volfanbill said:
K is an underachiever too. No coach is good enough.
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Like, I completely understand the importance of titles and all that. It's turned into the same discussion in Manning/Brady etc. Do you need to win the "big one" to be cemented as great? I think you do. But to act like because Cal is 1/4 in the Final Four, and somehow that is a negative against him is crazy
 
#62
#62
TNsnyper20 said:
Getting to the points in the tourney where is at is great. And if he didn't have 3-4 first round draft grades on each of his team I would completely agree with you. Winning the title isn't the standard of measurement.... however when you have essentially an NBA team playing at the college level you really don't have any excuses not to. That's all I'm getting at. Now you replace all these NBA caliber players with some average players and he still continues to get them to the sweet 16 and elite 8 consistently Iw ould agree with you. But that's not the case.
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Having draft worthy players does not make the Kentucky squad an essentially NBA team. Again, they lost one game this year. One game. In the national semifinal, on the grandest stage of college basketball.

You're delusional
 
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#63
#63
VKAman said:
If he went to 5 tournaments at UT and went to the Final Four in four of them, with a national title, you'd be bashing him for not winning enough? From a fanbase that gets excited about 7-6 football seasons, I find that very very hard to believe.
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That's a tad dramatic, Spurrier. Happy to go 7-6 with all things considered? Sure. "Excited"? Hardly.
 
#64
#64
volfanbill said:
Having draft worthy players does not make the Kentucky squad an essentially NBA team. Again, they lost one game this year. One game. In the national semifinal, on the grandest stage of college basketball.

You're delusional
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^^ Gets it.

I can't even believe this is having to be explained.
 
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#67
#67
I'm curious who's better than Cal right now?

K makes sense and is tough to argue against. Not sure who else is there to argue against Cal.
 
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#71
#71
There are 6 coaches with more Final Four appearances than John Calipari. Those coaches are:

John Wooden
Mike Krzyzewski
Dean Smith
Tom Izzo
Rick Pitino
Roy Williams

5 of these coaches coached/have coached longer than Cal (Izzo hasn't).

Obviously Cal sucks.
 
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#72
#72
SmoothCriminal said:
I think you could make an argument for Izzo
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One title chump according to snyper. One more Final Four without an NBA stint. Argument can be made, but I don't really buy it. Especially the Final Four run that Cal has been on the past eight years.
 
#73
#73
I can't believe you all are seriously saying that a coach who doesn't prepare his team for the stage they were at still deserves the title as a great coach. No way I put him on that level based on that alone. A better coach prepares his team by watching tape, and putting together a game plan against that specific team and wins. He did not. It wasn't that his players got out played. He got out coached. Again.

He was expected to win the NC, he didn't. That is the definition of underachieving.
 
#74
#74
volfanbill said:
One title chump according to snyper. One more Final Four without an NBA stint. Argument can be made, but I don't really buy it. Especially the Final Four run that Cal has been on the past eight years.
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Izzo is a better x's and o's coach. Not sure anyone would argue against that.
 
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