Trump Admin Blocks Fauci From Testifying Before Congress

#229
#229
I said in the main thread on CV, and say again here, I don't really see this testimony as all that surprising, or even significant as long as one gets the big picture point. The experts, including Fauci, are not opposed to reopening, but they want to see two things in place before that.

First, there should be a distinct drop in cases, which means you are seeing a decreased community spread, as is.

Second, you need to have in place ample testing (not promises of testing, but actual testing capacity) and sufficient mechanisms for tracing.

The point is that reopening will definitely result in an increase in cases and deaths. But, if you have those other things in place then you can jump on any new cases quickly, identify contacts by trace, and isolate others who may be infected. This way while there is community spread, it is not out of control and unknown.

Makes sense to me and I assume the models support it. And there is room there for Trump to embrace this. I just worry that he is going to see it as another attack on his attitude and reject it out of hand.
 
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#231
#231
lawgator1 said:
I said in the main thread on CV, and say again here, I don't really see this testimony as all that surprising, or even significant as long as one gets the big picture point. The experts, including Fauci, are not opposed to reopening, but they want to see two things in place before that.

First, there should be a distinct drop in cases, which means you are seeing a decreased community spread, as is.

Second, you need to have in place ample testing (not promises of testing, but actual testing capacity) and sufficient mechanisms for tracing.

The point is that reopening will definitely result in an increase in cases and deaths. But, if you have those other things in place then you can jump on any new cases quickly, identify contacts by trace, and isolate others who may be infected. This way while there is community spread, it is not out of control and unknown.

Makes sense to me and I assume the models support it. And there is room there for Trump to embrace this. I just worry that he is going to see it as another attack on his attitude and reject it out of hand.
Click to expand...

you will not see a drop in cases for a while as long as we keep giving more tests. Wouldn’t hospitalizations or deaths be a better measure?

At some point we have to get exposed. We cannot hide from the virus forever. The initial stated goal was to flatten the curve. We’ve done that, so it’s time to get our liberties back.

Anyone who wants to stay in or wear a mask / other PPE while out and about is able to do that.

This is getting absurd.
 
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#232
#232
DC_Vol said:
you will not see a drop in cases for a while as long as we keep giving more tests. Wouldn’t hospitalizations or deaths be a better measure?

At some point we have to get exposed. We cannot hide from the virus forever. The states was to flatten the curve. We’ve done that, so it’s time to get our liberties back.

Anyone who wants to stay in or wear a mask / other PPE while out and about is able to do that.

This is getting absurd.
Click to expand...

And New York is showing that sheltering at home is not effective
 
#237
#237
DC_Vol said:
you will not see a drop in cases for a while as long as we keep giving more tests. Wouldn’t hospitalizations or deaths be a better measure?

At some point we have to get exposed. We cannot hide from the virus forever. The initial stated goal was to flatten the curve. We’ve done that, so it’s time to get our liberties back.

Anyone who wants to stay in or wear a mask / other PPE while out and about is able to do that.

This is getting absurd.
Click to expand...
How do you know it's time to "get our liberties back?' Are you an epidemiologist or an immunologist?
 
#238
#238
Rand Paul with the line of the day.. History will remember this as wrong prediction after wrong prediction no disrespect Dr Fauci but you are not the end all you are not the one person who gets to make the decision.

LMAO
 
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#240
#240
DC_Vol said:
you will not see a drop in cases for a while as long as we keep giving more tests. Wouldn’t hospitalizations or deaths be a better measure?

At some point we have to get exposed. We cannot hide from the virus forever. The initial stated goal was to flatten the curve. We’ve done that, so it’s time to get our liberties back.

Anyone who wants to stay in or wear a mask / other PPE while out and about is able to do that.

This is getting absurd.
Click to expand...


In theory you are correct and the number of hospitalizations is a better measure of utilization of the services for more severe cases. But, we need the testing so as to find community spread and do the contact tracing. It is far better to do that on the front end than just detect more severe cases on the back end.

Do you not wear a mask when you go to the grocery store these days? Seems really foolish not to. The "intrusion" on you personal freedom is slight, more symbolic than anything. But the benefit is potentially quite high.
 
#241
#241
vols40 said:
Rand Paul with the line of the day.. History will remember this as wrong prediction after wrong prediction no disrespect Dr Fauci but you are not the end all you are not the one person who gets to make the decision.

LMAO
Click to expand...


It is not his decision. But to ignore his advice is potentially going to cost 60,000 to 70,000 or more lives, all of which will be laid at the feet of Trump and the GOP.
 
#245
#245
lawgator1 said:
It is not his decision. But to ignore his advice is potentially going to cost 60,000 to 70,000 or more lives, all of which will be laid at the feet of Trump and the GOP.
Click to expand...

Back to the death counts. What about the people who are dying in their homes because they are unable to see their Dr? Dr Fauci 10 minutes are up. Now for those of us with a set we're going to open this MFer back up.
 
#247
#247
volinbham said:
compared to what time frame?
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The models were predicting 60,000 to 70,000 deaths; now, with the relaxation of stay at home and social distancing, the models estimate the number of dead at 137,000.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

That increase is a DIRECT result of Trump and the GOP promoting reopening early.

You can debate whether its worth it. I suppose if you survive and your stock portfolio does a bit better, you might think so. But if you are a family member of one of the 70,000 that die in the next few months, you might think differently.
 
#250
#250
lawgator1 said:
In theory you are correct and the number of hospitalizations is a better measure of utilization of the services for more severe cases. But, we need the testing so as to find community spread and do the contact tracing. It is far better to do that on the front end than just detect more severe cases on the back end.

Do you not wear a mask when you go to the grocery store these days? Seems really foolish not to. The "intrusion" on you personal freedom is slight, more symbolic than anything. But the benefit is potentially quite high.
Click to expand...

I do because I have to. If I didn’t have to I wouldn’t.

I should be able to judge for myself if it’s really foolish. Maybe I’m not super susceptible. Maybe I’d rather croak than walk around in PPE everywhere I go. Maybe I don’t believe the severity is as bad as I’m told it is. There are a variety of reasons that one might choose not to wear a mask.

The larger point is that it’s not a slight intrusion on my liberty. I know your state is different but Maryland is on “stay at home” orders. That’s more than “symbolic”.

You realize that shutting down much of the economy forces businesses to do so as well? While you might be thinking of only the mask I’m talking about lost jobs, pay cuts, and other “symbolic” things lost on the whim of government burócrata.

Why is this version of liberty so hard to grasp: People are free to stay inside and hide, to wear PPE while in public, and to avoid gatherings with friends and colleagues. That’s never been illegal (outside of maybe wearing face cover masks in public...let’s make sure that is now allowed).

and other people are free to come and go as they please, go to work, interact, etc all without wearing protective gear.

Remember the goal was to FLATTEN THE CURVE. People were reasonable with their loss of freedom with that end in mind. We’ve done it. So it’s time to open things back up.

The lesson here should not be a surprise. Give the gov’t an inch and they’ll take a mile. The amount of freedom we’ve lost in the last month is immeasurable. We learned that an induced panic is all that’s needed to corral people up in their homes.
 
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