Trump Is an Ideological Authoritarian

#77
#77
Orangeslice13 said:
And GW before him.
And Clinton before him.
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It's gotten crazy. I'll never forget the first time I remember it when I was in college and a girl tried to convince me that Bill Clinton was the Antichrist. Even dumbass, 19 year old me knew that was stupid. We just don't handle opposition well.
 
#78
#78
n_huffhines said:
For the most part no (see banning bump stocks).

The thread is about his ideology, not what he's been able to pull off. Thank God for checks and balances, as well as staffers who have refused to obey his overstepping demands.
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We (myself included) got bent out of shape with Obama's "brownshirts" rhetoric. What politicians said used to bother me, too. I have a different perspective now. Politicians are the most frequent liars in existence. They say things to: throw meat to their base, anger the opposition, use as negotiation points in future deal making; float ideas to gauge the public's feedback; promote themselves. The last point is the only idealogy I can pin on Trump. His rhetoric seems to be anything that brings PR. I made this point after his election because he specifically mentioned his belief in his book, Art of the Deal. Trump doesn't believe in bad press. All press is good press. The items listed in the Reddit thread are more accurately understood through Trump's "all press is good" prism.

Once the politicians act in an authoritarian way, then we should be fighting them regardless of party. With that said, we have fewer liberties now than a century ago. But the populus hasn't reached the tipping point yet and isn't wanting to fight the ruling elites.
 
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#80
#80
n_huffhines said:
For the most part no (see banning bump stocks).

The thread is about his ideology, not what he's been able to pull off. Thank God for checks and balances, as well as staffers who have refused to obey his overstepping demands.
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So...if he's allowing that checks and balances thing to get in the way, he's not really an authoritarian is he? Because according to Wiki which seems to be getting a lot of hits from VN:

Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by strong central power and limited political freedoms. Under an authoritarian regime, individual freedoms are subordinate to the state, and there is no constitutional accountability and no rule of law. Authoritarian regimes can be autocratic, with power concentrated in one person, or can be a committee, with power shared among officials and government institutions. The political scientist Juan Linz synthesized authoritarian political systems as possessing four qualities:

  1. Limited political pluralism, realized with legalistic constraints on the legislature, political parties, and interest groups;
  2. Political legitimacy based upon appeals to emotion, and identification of the regime as a necessary evil to combat enemies of the people, socio-economic underdevelopment, and guerrilla insurgency;
  3. Minimal social mobilization consequent to legalistic constraints, such as political suppression of all anti-regime activities;
  4. Informally defined executive powers, which extend and allow government authority into every sphere of life.
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Yeah, those four things sound suspiciously like another party that Trump doesn't belong to. You really sure you want to continue this debate as to Trump's authoritarianism?

ETA: Forgot the link

Authoritarianism - Wikipedia
 
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#81
#81
@Grand Vol I'm surprised this has to be explained, but saying someone is an ideological authoritarian and saying we have an authoritarian form of government are two completely different convos.
 
#82
#82
n_huffhines said:
@Grand Vol I'm surprised this has to be explained, but saying someone is an ideological authoritarian and saying we have an authoritarian form of government are two completely different convos.
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Is this really the debate you want to have? Because I really don't think it is...

I'm gonna need another pot of coffee and some biscuits for this one.
 
#83
#83
GAVol said:
It's gotten crazy. I'll never forget the first time I remember it when I was in college and a girl tried to convince me that Bill Clinton was the Antichrist. Even dumbass, 19 year old me knew that was stupid. We just don't handle opposition well.
Click to expand...

Must not have been hot.
 
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#85
#85
Grand Vol said:
So...if he's allowing that checks and balances thing to get in the way, he's not really an authoritarian is he? Because according to Wiki which seems to be getting a lot of hits from VN:



Yeah, those four things sound suspiciously like another party that Trump doesn't belong to. You really sure you want to continue this debate as to Trump's authoritarianism?

ETA: Forgot the link

Authoritarianism - Wikipedia
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That was my thought as well when i heard the, "He's authoritarian. Thank God for the checks, so people don't do what he wants" argument. Kudos.
 
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#87
#87
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#89
#89
NurseGoodVol said:
2 to 3 year old articles, has he could, would should, called for, thinks, says, any of this? no. Useless 3 year old argument.
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It's not necessarily the extremely dated articles (though some are even older) it's the fact someone took the time to compile that many alleged articles for "proof."

@n_huffhines might complain about someone using the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" but danged if the author of that post doesn't need some professional help.
 
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#91
#91
Grand Vol said:
It's not necessarily the extremely dated articles (though some are even older) it's the fact someone took the time to compile that many alleged articles for "proof."

@n_huffhines might complain about someone using the term "Trump Derangement Syndrome" but danged if the author of that post doesn't need some professional help.
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Electronic time out.
 
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#100
#100
n_huffhines said:
Except for when Trump reinterpreted the law to take our bump stocks. Also, except for using emergency powers to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia.
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I'll largely plead ignorance on how those issues came about ... particularly the Saudi one ... I rarely read the articles because I get bored by the partisanship before I get a paragraph or two deep.

As far as bump sticks go, fully automatic weapons are illegal ... as in you can't even buy a surplus M14 because a selector could be manufactured apparently. Actually an M14 on full automatic is fairly safe in a crowd because by the third shot you are generally shooting at airplanes and tall buildings ... but that's immaterial here anyway. I guess if the thought is that a selector could be manufactured to circumvent the law, that it makes perfect sense that bump stocks fall in a similar category and should be illegal. Look at it this way bump stocks were deemed illegal rather than ARs themselves because they could be made illegal with a bump stock.

As long as there are judges, and particularly the 9th circuit court, Trump will never be an authoritarian ... a wannabe perhaps in your eyes. If you are looking for authoritarian (ie, without checks and balances) in our government, look no further than the judicial branch.
 
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