Trump on track for Supreme Court Victory on Census Citizenship Question

#527
#527
Weezer said:
Poll: Two-Thirds of Voters Say Citizenship Question Should Be Allowed on Census
Click to expand...
I think it's a legitimate question. I'm not an attorney but it seems like it would be legal (but like I said, my opinion is just that of an average person). The problem that the Trump administration ran into on this matter, and that no conservatives want to address, is that Trump's Secretary of Commerce, Wilbur Ross, was exposed for telling a lie by attorneys for the ACLU in front of the Supreme Court, concerning the Trump administration's motive behind wanting to add the citizenship question to the 2020 Census form.

It was not to help enforce the Voting Rights Act as Wilbur Ross had claimed. This was made clear when a senior adviser to Ross, named James Uthmeier, admitted before the court that Ross had instructed him to find legal justification for adding the citizenship question to the Census not long after Ross had assumed his post as Secretary of Commerce. It was Uthmeier (acting on instructions from Ross), who believed that a defense of the Voting Rights Act could be used as legal justification for the citizenship question. Uthmeier, then sent a memo to John Gore of the Department of Justice which explained the Trump administration's desire for adding the citizenship question to the 2020 Census and explained how enforcement of the Voting Rights Act could be used as a legal rationale in court. In his memo to Gore, Uthmeier requested that Gore make a formal written request to Ross for adding the question. This was so the Trump administration's legal team would have written documentation of the DOJ's request to present in court... but it was based on a lie. John Gore, of the DOJ, had only written that request to Ross for the citizenship question after being prompted by Uthmeier (who was following a direct order from Ross).

I don't believe that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, had a problem with the question based on the opinion he wrote, but he wasn't going to allow the Trump administration to lie to his court without consequence. He probably thought that would set a bad precedence within itself... and he was right. The moral of this story is don't lie to the Supreme Court of the United States. The Chief Justice probably won't like it.
 
Last edited:
#529
#529
BigOrangeTrain said:
Just goes to show that a significant portion of people want the question added. We know you are against it. Not surprising.
Click to expand...

Do you want it because you think it's important for some particular reason (there are evidently much better ways to get citizenship counts than through the census) or because of it's likely deterrent effect on legal and illegal aliens? If the former, what's that particular reason? If the latter, then change the constitution, because it requires us to count everyone here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BowlBrother85
#530
#530
I'll say it again...a citizenship and/or a naturalization question has been on every census since the early 1800's except for two. It was not on there in 1960 nor in 2010.

In 2010 the whole census format was changed.
 
#531
#531
DynaLo said:
I'll say it again...a citizenship and/or a naturalization question has been on every census since the early 1800's except for two. It was not on there in 1960 nor in 2010.

In 2010 the whole census format was changed.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Has not been on the short form census, which is what most people get, since 1950. It has been on the long form more recently.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BowlBrother85
#532
#532
evillawyer said:
Do you want it because you think it's important for some particular reason (there are evidently much better ways to get citizenship counts than through the census) or because of it's likely deterrent effect on legal and illegal aliens? If the former, what's that particular reason? If the latter, then change the constitution, because it requires us to count everyone here.
Click to expand...

I want it because I believe it would aid in tracking down and deterring illegals. So does it clearly state in the Constitution that we cannot add questions to a census?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange_Vol1321
#535
#535
BigOrangeTrain said:
I want it because I believe it would aid in tracking down and deterring illegals. So does it clearly state in the Constitution that we cannot add questions to a census?
Click to expand...
That is just plain wrong. The question that the Trump administration wants to add to the Census form does NOT address legality. It simply asks if you are a U.S. citizen or not. According to the Department of Homeland Security, there are currently 2.3 million people living in the United States with a temporary visa. These are people who would also be responding "No" to that question.... not just illegals.
 
#537
#537
BowlBrother85 said:
That is just plain wrong. The question that the Trump administration wants to add to the Census form does NOT address legality. It simply asks if you are a U.S. citizen or not. According to the Department of Homeland Security, there are currently 2.3 million people living in the United States with a temporary visa. These are people who would also be responding "No" to that question.... not just illegals.
Click to expand...
Then add question b. "Are you on a visa." It's not rocket science.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange_Crush and BigOrangeTrain
#538
#538
BowlBrother85 said:
That is just plain wrong. The question that the Trump administration wants to add to the Census form does NOT address legality. It simply asks if they are a U.S. citizen or not. According to the Department of Homeland Security, there are currently 2.3 million people living in the United States with a temporary visa. These are people who would also be responding "No" to that question.... not just illegals.
Click to expand...

Your opinion. But there is nothing wrong with the question. You just dont want it because you favor the liberal viewpoint of there is nothing wrong with illegal immigration.

So those with temporary visas answer no, gets investigated quickly, shows proof of the visa and case closed. So whats the problem?
 
#540
#540
Orange_Vol1321 said:
Then add question b. "Are you on a visa." It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...
You don't think the Trump administration has thought of that? LOL! That probably would overstep the legal boundaries of the Census form. It's primary purpose is to simply be a head count.
 
#541
#541
evillawyer said:
And how is this relevant to it's legality?
Click to expand...
At this point, it's not. But if the poll is accurate, maybe Congress should take action on the desires of their constituents. After all, they're not there to serve their parties. They're there to serve the people.
 
#542
#542
BigOrangeTrain said:
Your opinion. But there is nothing wrong with the question. You just dont want it because you favor the liberal viewpoint of there is nothing wrong with illegal immigration.

So those with temporary visas answer no, gets investigated quickly, shows proof of the visa and case closed. So whats the problem?
Click to expand...
In an above post, I said that I thought it was a legitimate question. It won't be on the 2020 Census because the Trump administration (specifically Wilbur Ross) tried to make the legal argument for it, based on a lie.

Off to see some fireworks and eat some food... a good 4th to everyone!!!!
 
#543
#543
evillawyer said:
Do you want it because you think it's important for some particular reason (there are evidently much better ways to get citizenship counts than through the census) or because of it's likely deterrent effect on legal and illegal aliens? If the former, what's that particular reason? If the latter, then change the constitution, because it requires us to count everyone here.
Click to expand...
Non-citizens should not count when allocating representation IMO.
 
#544
#544
Explain exactly why the question is so controversial? What data are folks scared the census will show?

If you are hiding here illegally then you probably aren't going to get a census request in the first place. If you are in the system already, and are now considered to be here illegally, you probably will get one and oopsie for you..
 
#546
#546
evillawyer said:
I agree, but constitution says otherwise and that's what we're bound by.
Click to expand...

Does the language of the Constitution specifically spell this out, or is this your interpretation? Has SCOTUS weighed in on the subject of whether non-citizens should count in such a way?
 
#547
#547
evillawyer said:
Yes and no. Has not been on the short form census, which is what most people get, since 1950. It has been on the long form more recently.
Click to expand...

1960 -not on the census.
1970 - naturalization on long form only
1980 - naturalization collected from each respondent
1990 - citizenship on long form
2000 - citizenship on long form
2010 - census became 🐮💩
Citizenship on long form questionnaire which is now collected by the American Community Survey.

2010 census asked for your telephone number..it would have made more sense to ask the citizenship question there instead.
 
#548
#548
BowlBrother85 said:
You don't think the Trump administration has thought of that? LOL! That probably would overstep the legal boundaries of the Census form. It's primary purpose is to simply be a head count.
Click to expand...
There needs to be a "simple head count."

Ice already knows where you live if you're illegal.


Edit: Government knows where you live whether you're legal or illegal.
 
#549
#549
DynaLo said:
Explain exactly why the question is so controversial? What data are folks scared the census will show?

If you are hiding here illegally then you probably aren't going to get a census request in the first place. If you are in the system already, and are now considered to be here illegally, you probably will get one and oopsie for you..
Click to expand...

You won’t get a direct answer. It’s two fold for the dims. One, they will claim that it will be used to come pick up their illegal voters. Two, they won’t be able to claim gerrymandering victimhood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DynaLo
#550
#550
At some point, it would be refreshing to see a Trump supporter/conservative on this forum, place some blame on Wilbur Ross for his deceptive means and mishandling of this matter. It is clear enough in Justice Roberts' written opinion that the Trump administration would have had their "very critical" question added and this would be over and done with and Census forms would be printing right now with the damn question ... if not for Ross being exposed for his dishonesty and contrived justification for the citizenship question before the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Roberts was not going to let that pass before his court without consequence; nor should he.

... but, that is never addressed by conservatives, who either attack Democrats or Justice Roberts and whine about Trump not getting what he wanted. That is nothing short of blind political partisanship where the concepts of accountability and liability are completely disregarded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hunerwadel
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top