Trump's tax returns to be released to the Dems...

#553
#553
What's the purpose for obtaining his taxes? To stop him in '24? Is there anything else?

No matter what his returns say, it doesn't tell the entire financial position/ condition.
 
#555
#555
OrangeTsar‘s Rules of Politics:Number 4
“Never be the first to deploy a weapon you do not wish to be used against yourself in turn.“. Joe Biden should realize that his returns are now fair game for a Republican Congress. All that 10% for the Big Guy should make for interesting reading, no?
 
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#556
#556
Boca Vol said:
What's the purpose for obtaining his taxes? To stop him in '24? Is there anything else?

No matter what his returns say, it doesn't tell the entire financial position/ condition.
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I pray that he finds a deduction he didn't know about.

Actually I am looking forward to a possible blueprint to avoiding theft from the .gov.
 
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#557
#557
OrangeTsar said:
OrangeTsar‘s Rules of Politics:Number 4
“Never be the first to deploy a weapon you do not wish to be used against yourself in turn.“. Joe Biden should realize that his returns are now fair game for a Republican Congress. All that 10% for the Big Guy should make for interesting reading, no?
Click to expand...
Biden and every other President since Nixon (except Trump) has made their returns available to the public.

I think Biden's are here:
PolitiFact - Yes, Joe Biden has released 22 years of tax returns online
 
#558
#558
#559
#559
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Trump’s would be far more complicated than the other 8 combined. Plenty in them for the left to create their BS propaganda and false narratives.
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I see you're already prepared. Anything negative that comes out = propaganda. Trump can never do wrong, he's not capable, right?
 
#560
#560
K-town Vol Fan said:
I see you're already prepared. Anything negative that comes out = propaganda. Trump can never do wrong, he's not capable, right?
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You arent going to see fraud when they are released. You are going to see the underperfoming financial results of a guy who has seen his net worth go down over the past decade....
 
#561
#561
K-town Vol Fan said:
I see you're already prepared. Anything negative that comes out = propaganda. Trump can never do wrong, he's not capable, right?
Click to expand...

What you see is somebody that understands the Democratic play book. 100% guaranteed that they’ll pull out some scary sounding nuggets to stir up their financially ignorant base.

He’s a businessman. Not a career politician. Most career politicians could file their returns on a post card.

His returns have already been dissected by the IRS. He’d already be in prison if anything was fraudulent.
 
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#562
#562
Thunder Good-Oil said:
What you see is somebody that understands the Democratic play book. 100% guaranteed that they’ll pull out some scary sounding nuggets to stir up their financially ignorant base.

He’s a businessman. Not a career politician. Most career politicians could file their returns on a post card.

His returns have already been dissected by the IRS. He’d already be in prison if anything was fraudulent.
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Agree, I dont think there's any fraud that will be uncovered by releasing returns. There's likely a BS easement deduction in 2015 but he hasn't even monetized that yet...
 
#563
#563
One of my favorites from the dem’s play book. XYZ “paid zero taxes in 2xxx”. But they’ll leave out the parts like it was because XYZ overpaid the year before. But, but they didn’t “pay” taxes. Or corporations owned by XYZ paid millions and millions in taxes. But “he” didn’t pay his fair share.
 
#564
#564
K-town Vol Fan said:
I see you're already prepared. Anything negative that comes out = propaganda. Trump can never do wrong, he's not capable, right?
Click to expand...

It’s less that he can do no wrong and more that we are just always amazed at how much your side has went after trump and how little they’ve found. I’m not convinced most politicians could hold up to that level of scrutiny.
 
#565
#565
Thunder Good-Oil said:
One of my favorites from the dem’s play book. XYZ “paid zero taxes in 2xxx”. But they’ll leave out the parts like it was because XYZ overpaid the year before. But, but they didn’t “pay” taxes. Or corporations owned by XYZ paid millions and millions in taxes. But “he” didn’t pay his fair share.
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Two things to note.

1. Trump did have taxable income in 2018 and 2019. He offset the income tax from those years with Rehabilitation credits and AMT credits carryforward. For Dems to say he paid no tax in 2018 and 2019 is disingenuous.

2. Trump appears to have gone about a decade showing 0 taxable income and 0 income tax due (2007-2017). This wasn't Trump overpaying taxes, this was a decade where expenses > revenue...
 
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#566
#566
BigOrangeMojo said:
Two things to note.

1. Trump did have taxable income in 2018 and 2019. He offset the income tax from those years with Rehabilitation credits and AMT credits carryforward. For Dems to say he paid no tax in 2018 and 2019 is disingenuous.

2. Trump appears to have gone about a decade showing 0 taxable income and 0 income tax due (2007-2017). This wasn't Trump overpaying taxes, this was a decade where expenses > revenue...
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2). Which makes sense. Those that purchase real estate typically have a negative tax liability in the early years immediately after purchases of those properties. If fully depreciated properties are being held, then taxable gains on the appreciation is deferred. That is simple Real Estate Finance math. A big component of the cash flow is the tax benefit.

Plus that date range includes the Great Recession.
 
#567
#567
Thunder Good-Oil said:
2). Which makes sense. Those that purchase real estate typically have a negative tax liability in the early years immediately after purchases of those properties. If fully depreciated properties are being held, then taxable gains on the appreciation is deferred. That is simple Real Estate Finance math. A big component of the cash flow is the tax benefit.

Plus that date range includes the Great Recession.
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Ha, I was a real estate developer during the great recession. Had income/loss around $0.00 for two of those years.

Crooked lenders caused the Great Recession. Loaned money to people with bad credit(sub-prime). I was on a bank boaard, and we hired a lender from Country Wide to increase income from mortgages. We had to turn down 80-90% of the applications she brought us. She didn't understand, and said Countrywide had no problem with her applications.
 
#568
#568
Go aeiou said:
Ha, I was a real estate developer during the great recession. Had income/loss around $0.00 for two of those years.

Crooked lenders caused the Great Recession. Loaned money to people with bad credit(sub-prime). I was on a bank boaard, and we hired a lender from Country Wide to increase income from mortgages. We had to turn down 80-90% of the applications she brought us. She didn't understand, and said Countrywide had no problem with her applications.
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Sub-prime lending and lending without proof of income was insanity. That practice unwound in a bad way when GW was POTUS, but it all began with Barney Frank and Clinton pushing through legislation a decade earlier. THAT was a huge Ponzi. The bad loans on the front end were safe with the home prices taking off. Lenders crashed and burned and took down much of the world’s economy on the back end.
 
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#570
#570
I always thought the American economy and attitude was resilient enough to overcome DCs ineptitude
Not anymore
We are one broken nation
 
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#572
#572
Thunder Good-Oil said:
2). Which makes sense. Those that purchase real estate typically have a negative tax liability in the early years immediately after purchases of those properties. If fully depreciated properties are being held, then taxable gains on the appreciation is deferred. That is simple Real Estate Finance math. A big component of the cash flow is the tax benefit.

Plus that date range includes the Great Recession.
Click to expand...

This makes sense except for the fact that if you exclude Trump's depreciation expense, he's still in a tax loss for a full decade. It's one thing to be at a loss loss due to depreciation expense but he's at a tax loss because he is consistently cash flow negative.

You have to look that in past 10 years, his estimated net worth has decreased. Stock prices and real estate has skyrocketed. Most high net worth individuals have 2 doubles in that timeframe. Trump lived (legally) on govt dime for 4 years. He started DWAC. Even with all that, his net worth is lower. The only legitimate explanation is consistent, long term cash flow deficit at his properties. That is evidenced by his returns. It is also proof that you won't see a smoking gun of tax fraud either in them...
 
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#573
#573
BigOrangeMojo said:
This makes sense except for the fact that if you exclude Trump's depreciation expense, he's still in a tax loss for a full decade. It's one thing to be at a loss loss due to depreciation expense but he's at a tax loss because he is consistently cash flow negative.

You have to look that in past 10 years, his estimated net worth has decreased. Stock prices and real estate has skyrocketed. Most high net worth individuals have 2 doubles in that timeframe. Trump lived (legally) on govt dime for 4 years. He started DWAC. Even with all that, his net worth is lower. The only legitimate explanation is consistent, long term cash flow deficit at his properties. That is evidenced by his returns. It is also proof that you won't see a smoking gun of tax fraud either in them...
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Adding properties will create tax losses. Selling depreciated properties will create taxable gains. Cash flow is entirely different - especially with real estate finance. The tax advantages are likely the biggest piece of that. The build up of equity on depreciating assets isn’t something that is put on balance sheets.

I wouldn’t trust the NYT’s and Forbes’ estimates of his year to year net worth. What is their methodology? The net worth of somebody with the bulk of their wealth in shares of publicly traded shares is easy. Determining the value of privately owned equity not so much. They don’t have the staffs to research the financial engineering that would be going on with privately held businesses.
 
#574
#574
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Adding properties will create tax losses. Selling depreciated properties will create taxable gains. Cash flow is entirely different - especially with real estate finance. The tax advantages are likely the biggest piece of that. The build up of equity on depreciating assets isn’t something that is put on balance sheets.

I wouldn’t trust the NYT’s and Forbes’ estimates of his year to year net worth. What is their methodology? The net worth of somebody with the bulk of their wealth in shares of publicly traded shares is easy. Determining the value of privately owned equity not so much. They don’t have the staffs to research the financial engineering that would be going on with privately held businesses.
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I do know the NYT typically reaches out to accounting experts. They reached out to all thr Big 4 plus firms like Grant Thornton and none of them (wisely so) touched it. When I was serving on an executive committee with AICPA, they reached out as well. Obviously, we didnt touch that with a 10 foot pole.

I normally do take the Forbes stuff with a grain of salt but he has been so transparent with them for the past 40 years trying to show a larger net worth for their publication. Between that and the campaign finance forms, I would bet they are close....

Again, I know of no market beating real estate investor that is cash flow negative for a decade after purchasing a property. None.

Regarding NYT, obviously you have to read past the headlines since they will be slanted against Trump.
 
#575
#575
BigOrangeMojo said:
I do know the NYT typically reaches out to accounting experts. They reached out to all thr Big 4 plus firms like Grant Thornton and none of them (wisely so) touched it. When I was serving on an executive committee with AICPA, they reached out as well. Obviously, we didnt touch that with a 10 foot pole.

I normally do take the Forbes stuff with a grain of salt but he has been so transparent with them for the past 40 years trying to show a larger net worth for their publication. Between that and the campaign finance forms, I would bet they are close....

Again, I know of no market beating real estate investor that is cash flow negative for a decade after purchasing a property. None.

Regarding NYT, obviously you have to read past the headlines since they will be slanted against Trump.
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The media outlets aren’t in it to invest in an expensive appraisal to determine the truth. They already have a number in mind and will spend as little as possible to “validate” it. They still need to sell more advertising (and subscriptions) than their cost of appraising his assets and equity for their own bottom line to be positive.

No, purchasing “a property” will not have negative cash flow for years and years. Buying “properties” (and recapitalizing them) over and over as a business expands certainly can.

Where is Trump’s “cash flow” published as being negative for a decade? The tax advantages are recorded as net losses on books and tax returns, but the actual cash flow can be positive when adding back the tax benefits that were created by investing in RE.

We shouldn’t keep hijacking a thread about Trump’s tax returns being taken public by the Dems. His net worth, whether on personal financial disclosures or accounting as booked or for tax calculations, assessments for municipal taxing authorities, created for shock value by publications, or whatever, is a totally separate discussion. Net worth doesn’t go on individual’s tax returns.
 
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