TrumPutinGate

#2,779
#2,779
lawgator1 said:
Trump's management style is very interesting. He demands 100% loyalty. If he feels like you cross him, you are out. Dissent is not allowed. To tell him he is wrong risks immediate exile.

But, as soon as information comes out that you might be a liability to him, he disavows ever having been involved with you. He minimizes your role. He marginalizes and belittles you.
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wait I thought you were talking about Obama for a minute there
 
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#2,780
#2,780
carlos86 said:
Trusting a Russian is always a bad thing. I'd trust House Bolton before I would trust Russia. Hell I'd trust Walder Frey before I'd trust Vladimir Putin. The Russians don't want peace. If they wanted peace they would have left Ukraine by now.
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Trust is a subjective word, you don't have to have trust to have peace. You just have to have an understanding.
 
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#2,784
#2,784
theFallGuy said:
that is super naive and would never work
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He asked. Peace comes with a price. North Korea may be one of the most peaceful countries on the planet. The US is one of the least peaceful countries. There is frequently a trade off between freedom and peace.
 
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#2,786
#2,786
luthervol said:
He asked. Peace comes with a price. North Korea may be one of the most peaceful countries on the planet. The US is one of the least peaceful countries. There is frequently a trade off between freedom and peace.
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with freedom comes great responsibility.
 
#2,788
#2,788
theFallGuy said:
and for the record, North Korea is not a peaceful country, that's absurd
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How much crime do they have? What are the murder, rape, and assault statistics? I don't know - they may be some of the lowest in the world. The point is the same - peace often comes with a price.
 
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#2,789
#2,789
A theory:

Donny says he never met Carter Page. Likewise, Page says he has never met Donny.

In a rare alignment of the stars, coupled with the birth of a new galaxy, both are actually telling the truth for once.

However, looks are not what they appear here.

I think that Page was chosen precisely because he has never met Donny. In fact, I wager that steps were taken to prevent to two from ever meeting or having any sort of contact.

The reason for this? Plausible deniability. Page is the fall guy, or at least one of them.

Page, as dumb as he is, is the perfect fall guy, if you think about it. Donny could get his Flynns, his Manaforts, his Gordons, his Sessions of the world to have Page do the hardwork with the Kremlin, the kind that would potentially end up on US/European intelligence gathering. Page would then take the hit if the great scheme was exposed, and Donny would maintain plenty of room to distance himself from any accusations of collusion.

Team Donny have been championing that Donny never met Page around like it's proof that there couldn't possibly be any wrongdoing here. They seem to think it helps their cause. On the contrary, it only makes them look guiltier.
 
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#2,790
#2,790
hog88 said:
You missed the bold part.
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I didn't miss it, I ignored it.

What if peace with Russia came at the expense of our relations with our European allies? What if peace with Russia entailed us becoming a lesser global economic power?

If the question is "what could be catastrophic about peace with Russia assuming nothing else changes?" Then the answer would be "nothing". But that's a question based on
an irrational assumption.
 
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#2,791
#2,791
luthervol said:
I didn't miss it, I ignored it.

What if peace with Russia came at the expense of our relations with our European allies? What if peace with Russia entailed us becoming a lesser global economic power?

If the question is "what could be catastrophic about peace with Russia assuming nothing else changes?" Then the answer would be "nothing". But that's a question based on
an irrational assumption.
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We can what if all day. However I don't see any of your what ifs as nothing more than the US completely caving to Russian demands. Which isn't happening.

Really, what IYO are the worst case scenarios?
 
#2,792
#2,792
Well Trump is turning out to be the worst Russian asset ever. Putin probably wishes he backed

art.clintonlavrov1.gi.jpg
 
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#2,793
#2,793
volprof said:
A theory:

Donny says he never met Carter Page. Likewise, Page says he has never met Donny.

In a rare alignment of the stars, coupled with the birth of a new galaxy, both are actually telling the truth for once.

However, looks are not what they appear here.

I think that Page was chosen precisely because he has never met Donny. In fact, I wager that steps were taken to prevent to two from ever meeting or having any sort of contact.

The reason for this? Plausible deniability. Page is the fall guy, or at least one of them.

Page, as dumb as he is, is the perfect fall guy, if you think about it. Donny could get his Flynns, his Manaforts, his Gordons, his Sessions of the world to have Page do the hardwork with the Kremlin, the kind that would potentially end up on US/European intelligence gathering. Page would then take the hit if the great scheme was exposed, and Donny would maintain plenty of room to distance himself from any accusations of collusion.

Team Donny have been championing that Donny never met Page around like it's proof that there couldn't possibly be any wrongdoing here. They seem to think it helps their cause. On the contrary, it only makes them look guiltier.
Click to expand...

this is what makes debating with you pointless on this subject. in your world even proof positive that there is no connection from Page to Trump is proof positive that Trump is a traitor.
 
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#2,794
#2,794
LouderVol said:
this is what makes debating with you pointless on this subject. in your world even proof positive that there is no connection from Page to Trump is proof positive that Trump is a traitor.
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Thank god you're not running this counterintelligence investigation.

Every stone has to be upturned. Every possibility examined.

You can keep your logic, but sometimes things seem very illogical, and that by design.
 
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#2,795
#2,795
volprof said:
Thank god you're not running this counterintelligence investigation.

Every stone has to be upturned. Every possibility examined.

You can keep your logic, but sometimes things seem very illogical, and that by design.
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this combined with your admission that no matter what the investigation concludes you won't change your mind proves Louder's point.

you're in too deep - sometimes you argue we have to use logic; now you say we have to abandon that to get to the truth which you've already determined.
 
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#2,796
#2,796
volprof said:
A theory:

Donny says he never met Carter Page. Likewise, Page says he has never met Donny.

In a rare alignment of the stars, coupled with the birth of a new galaxy, both are actually telling the truth for once.

However, looks are not what they appear here.

I think that Page was chosen precisely because he has never met Donny. In fact, I wager that steps were taken to prevent to two from ever meeting or having any sort of contact.

The reason for this? Plausible deniability. Page is the fall guy, or at least one of them.

Page, as dumb as he is, is the perfect fall guy, if you think about it. Donny could get his Flynns, his Manaforts, his Gordons, his Sessions of the world to have Page do the hardwork with the Kremlin, the kind that would potentially end up on US/European intelligence gathering. Page would then take the hit if the great scheme was exposed, and Donny would maintain plenty of room to distance himself from any accusations of collusion.

Team Donny have been championing that Donny never met Page around like it's proof that there couldn't possibly be any wrongdoing here. They seem to think it helps their cause. On the contrary, it only makes them look guiltier.
Click to expand...

LG told us Page was a "top official" in Trump's campaign. Now we are to believe a person may have never met was a "top official"?
 
#2,797
#2,797
volinbham said:
this combined with your admission that no matter what the investigation concludes you won't change your mind proves Louder's point.

you're in too deep - sometimes you argue we have to use logic; now you say we have to abandon that to get to the truth which you've already determined.
Click to expand...

I'll go to my grave believing Donny committed a coup with RIS, no matter what the FBI says. Just as I'll go to my grave believing Hillary should be in jail for criminally violating our national security.

So, take of that what you will.
 
#2,798
#2,798
volinbham said:
LG told us Page was a "top official" in Trump's campaign. Now we are to believe a person may have never met was a "top official"?
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LG was incorrect about that, as well as a couple of other things in that particular post.

My Christoph Waltz response was mostly for his conclusion that it's all an intentional show to hide and mask, which should be clear as day to anyone who doesn't accept the Ivanka "doe eyes" story peddled by Team Trumpov.
 
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#2,800
#2,800
hog88 said:
We can what if all day. However I don't see any of your what ifs as nothing more than the US completely caving to Russian demands. Which isn't happening.

Really, what IYO are the worst case scenarios?
Click to expand...

I would approach it this way. Ask yourself: "What are Russia's short term and long term objectives?" "Do these objectives align with US objectives?" "Can there be long term peace if the answer to the second question is no and without the US caving to Russian demands?"
 
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