TrumPutinGate

#2,753
#2,753
luthervol said:
It sounds more like a conspiracy theory. I'm not sure what facts they're distorting or fabricating to back up their claim. The issue I have (from whichever side it comes) is when people knowingly distort and fabricate facts in an effort to promote false conclusions. I think the right is the guiltier party.
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Alright let's take the change in sanctions (a correction executed by the Treasury Dept) that allowed iPads, laptops, etc. to be sold into Russia.

It was a fix of the late last year Obama sanctions and the fix was recommended by Team Obama - just happened to finally get executed shortly into the Trump reign.

Dems were saying this was Trump loosening sanctions on the FSB and was direct evidence about the cahoots. They knew that was a complete fabrication but repeated it over and over when asked to produce evidence of the collusion.

The DNC is labeling Spicer's obvious f'up as antisemitism and fund raising off it. Distortion no?

The new head of the DNC's message is that Republicans don't give a shizz about about people. Is that in anyway an accurate assessment? He refused to apologize. Honestly, both sides are so full of crap it's hard to take any of them serious about anything.



Both sides distort but human nature is to give the pass to our team. I doubt there's credible analysis that could show one side guiltier than the other.
 
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#2,754
#2,754
volinbham said:
Alright let's take the change in sanctions (a correction executed by the Treasury Dept) that allowed iPads, laptops, etc. to be sold into Russia.

It was a fix of the late last year Obama sanctions and the fix was recommended by Team Obama - just happened to finally get executed shortly into the Trump reign.

Dems were saying this was Trump loosening sanctions on the FSB and was direct evidence about the cahoots. They knew that was a complete fabrication but repeated it over and over when asked to produce evidence of the collusion.


The DNC is labeling Spicer's obvious f'up as antisemitism and fund raising off it. Distortion no?

The new head of the DNC's message is that Republicans don't give a shizz about about people. Is that in anyway an accurate assessment? He refused to apologize. Honestly, both sides are so full of crap it's hard to take any of them serious about anything.



Both sides distort but human nature is to give the pass to our team. I doubt there's credible analysis that could show one side guiltier than the other.
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I'll agree; even though that makes for a pretty boring debate.
 
#2,755
#2,755
Velo Vol said:
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Yea that meeting Tillerson had was going real well until Lavrov cut his nuts off.
 
#2,758
#2,758
luthervol said:
Who is competent? What group? What organization? What person? What news outlet? Is there competence to be found anywhere?
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Not really and thats the whole point. We Americans have created a brain dead, corrupt and worthless government that is much more interested in how much they can steal and lie as opposed to doing what they are supposed to.
 
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#2,760
#2,760
BigOrangeTrain said:
Not really and thats the whole point. We Americans have created a brain dead, corrupt and worthless government that is much more interested in how much they can steal and lie as opposed to doing what they are supposed to.
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I was taking it beyond just government in the search for competency.

Is there a company, organization, media outlet, church, military, NRA, businessman, etc that you deem competent?
 
#2,761
#2,761
BigOrangeTrain said:
But, but Trump is Putin's best buddy...
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Said in answering a question that did not ask that. Consider:

1) in the last few weeks we've seen more and more evidence of Trump campaign connections to Russian operatives.

2) trump is on record insisting there were no connections, AT ALL.

3). The administration sets up the faked "oh my gosh!" moment for Nunez, which might have worked had they not picked a moron to be the fake bringer of info to Trump who, shockingly (blue font) was prepped to say "see, I was right."

4) now we learn the "news" from what Nunez saw is standard stuff, of little interest.

5) now we learn that a FISA court found probable cause to believe that a top campaign official was a foreign agent.

6). Trump has had to fire another campaign official actually on the Russian payroll plus his head of national security, who now wants immunity.

7) members of the house committee say they expect people to go to jail once this is all public.

You know, from the outside looking in, one MIGHT just get the impression that the sudden change in rhetoric about Russia is by design. To distance Trump as much as possible from what is coming down the pike.
 
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#2,762
#2,762
lawgator1 said:
Said in answering a question that did not ask that. Consider:

1) in the last few weeks we've seen more and more evidence of Trump campaign connections to Russian operatives.

2) trump is on record insisting there were no connections, AT ALL.

3). The administration sets up the faked "oh my gosh!" moment for Nunez, which might have worked had they not picked a moron to be the fake bringer of info to Trump who, shockingly (blue font) was prepped to say "see, I was right."

4) now we learn the "news" from what Nunez saw is standard stuff, of little interest.

5) now we learn that a FISA court found probable cause to believe that a top campaign official was a foreign agent.

6). Trump has had to fire another campaign official actually on the Russian payroll plus his head of national security, who now wants immunity.

7) members of the house committee say they expect people to go to jail once this is all public.

You know, from the outside looking in, one MIGHT just get the impression that the sudden change in rhetoric about Russia is by design. To distance Trump as much as possible from what is coming down the pike.
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On #4 all we learned was the documents don't show illegal activities. Most people already knew Rice was legally allowed to unmask. The documents tell us nothing of the why and why the information was widely distributed.

On #5 is a repeat of #1 and Page was in no way "top campaign official"

On #7 - who?

Contrast that with all the moves Trump is making that directly counter the narrative he's in Putin's pocket and the real new information points decidedly away from the puppet allegation.
 
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#2,763
#2,763
volinbham said:
On #4 all we learned was the documents don't show illegal activities. Most people already knew Rice was legally allowed to unmask. The documents tell us nothing of the why and why the information was widely distributed.

On #5 is a repeat of #1 and Page was in no way "top campaign official"

On #7 - who?

Contrast that with all the moves Trump is making that directly counter the narrative he's in Putin's pocket and the real new information points decidedly away from the puppet allegation
.
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Trump's management style is very interesting. He demands 100% loyalty. If he feels like you cross him, you are out. Dissent is not allowed. To tell him he is wrong risks immediate exile.

But, as soon as information comes out that you might be a liability to him, he disavows ever having been involved with you. He minimizes your role. He marginalizes and belittles you.
 
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#2,764
#2,764
lawgator1 said:
Trump's management style is very interesting. He demands 100% loyalty. If he feels like you cross him, you are out. Dissent is not allowed. To tell him he is wrong risks immediate exile.

But, as soon as information comes out that you might be a liability to him, he disavows ever having been involved with you. He minimizes your role. He marginalizes and belittles you.
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You just described every major corporation in the country.
 
#2,766
#2,766
lawgator1 said:
Said in answering a question that did not ask that. Consider:

1) in the last few weeks we've seen more and more evidence of Trump campaign connections to Russian operatives.

2) trump is on record insisting there were no connections, AT ALL.

3). The administration sets up the faked "oh my gosh!" moment for Nunez, which might have worked had they not picked a moron to be the fake bringer of info to Trump who, shockingly (blue font) was prepped to say "see, I was right."

4) now we learn the "news" from what Nunez saw is standard stuff, of little interest.

5) now we learn that a FISA court found probable cause to believe that a top campaign official was a foreign agent.

6). Trump has had to fire another campaign official actually on the Russian payroll plus his head of national security, who now wants immunity.

7) members of the house committee say they expect people to go to jail once this is all public.

You know, from the outside looking in, one MIGHT just get the impression that the sudden change in rhetoric about Russia is by design. To distance Trump as much as possible from what is coming down the pike.
Click to expand...

That's a-bingo!
 
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#2,767
#2,767
lawgator1 said:
Trump's management style is very interesting. He demands 100% loyalty. If he feels like you cross him, you are out. Dissent is not allowed. To tell him he is wrong risks immediate exile.

But, as soon as information comes out that you might be a liability to him, he disavows ever having been involved with you. He minimizes your role. He marginalizes and belittles you.
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An example of this, please.
 
#2,768
#2,768
lawgator1 said:
Trump's management style is very interesting. He demands 100% loyalty. If he feels like you cross him, you are out. Dissent is not allowed. To tell him he is wrong risks immediate exile.

But, as soon as information comes out that you might be a liability to him, he disavows ever having been involved with you. He minimizes your role. He marginalizes and belittles you.
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Obama through tons of folks under the bus
 
#2,769
#2,769
volinbham said:
Guiliani had sources inside the FBI...

Let's just say that when a guy who's not an investigative reporter and who doesn't even quote anonymous sources puts out a piece that says his sources are telling him there's no smoking gun but the evidence clearly shows collusion I'm going to be skeptical of the veracity of his claims.
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Funny you should mention the Rudy "October Surprise" Giuliani and his FBI New York Field Office sources.

I don't know for a fact, but I highly suspect, both are a part of this broader FBI investigation as well.

When this is all said and done, Schoolmarm Rudy may be doing a little time in Sing Sing.
 
#2,770
#2,770
So, let me get this straight.

Trump switches his positions on Assad, Russia (but note: not Putin), use of force, and NATO all in one week, because, according to Eric Trump, Ivanka went to Donny with her doe eyes and said, "But the Syrian children, Papa!"

Give me a darned break.

On a related note, one wonders if Donny's complete and sudden switcharoo act on NATO is an early repositioning to attempt to eventually get NATO nations on board with a wider Middle Eastern war, against ISIS and/or Iran. Perhaps even to drum up some support for actions against North Korea, even though that's a bit outside of NATO's purview.

I said a month or two ago that this man will not hesitate to throw the entire nation into a war or into civil strife to attempt to save himself. Thus far, all I've seen only further confirms that, but we'll see what develops. Hope I'm wrong; I don't think I am.
 
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#2,775
#2,775
hog88 said:
IYO would this be a bad thing?
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Trusting a Russian is always a bad thing. I'd trust House Bolton before I would trust Russia. Hell I'd trust Walder Frey before I'd trust Vladimir Putin. The Russians don't want peace. If they wanted peace they would have left Ukraine by now.
 
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