TrumPutinGate

#22,527
#22,527
there's a difference between should he be removed if this particular charge is proven true and will he be if this particular charge is proven true.

On the should side this particular charge alone is not sufficient just as Clinton's perjury alone was not. Most of the rationales I see here are including other charges.

I cannot predict the "would" side.
 
#22,529
#22,529
tvolsfan said:
I think you’re way too optimistic. You need 20 Republicans to convict him and remove him from office. Republicans have shown they will protect their seats before they protect democracy.
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I think it would be a larger calculation of can we take the WH in 2020 with a non-Trump candidate if we boot him.
 
#22,530
#22,530
tvolsfan said:
I think you’re way too optimistic. You need 20 Republicans to convict him and remove him from office. Republicans have shown they will protect their seats before they protect democracy.
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There is a tipping point, however, similar to Nixon, where its too much and they actually risk losing their seats if they stand by him any longer. We've seen a few flip already. Seems like more than a few are right there on the fence, as is.

When Lindsay Graham, the Trump Whisperer goes, you'll know its over.
 
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#22,532
#22,532
volinbham said:
I think it would be a larger calculation of can we take the WH in 2020 with a non-Trump candidate if we boot him.
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No, I think he's right. Its too polarizing within individual states/districts. They will watch out for themselves, first. Once a few more break, it may become an avalanche, especially once the writing is on the wall.
 
#22,534
#22,534
lawgator1 said:
There is a tipping point, however, similar to Nixon, where its too much and they actually risk losing their seats if they stand by him any longer. We've seen a few flip already. Seems like more than a few are right there on the fence, as is.

When Lindsay Graham, the Trump Whisperer goes, you'll know its over.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the # of never Trumpers in the Senate has done anything but shrink since he won.

There was much more on Nixon and he resigned, they never had to take the vote.

Still, I think it's more about can we get a better nominee and win 2020 than anything else.
 
#22,535
#22,535
volinbham said:
I think it would be a larger calculation of can we take the WH in 2020 with a non-Trump candidate if we boot him.
Click to expand...

I think you're right. The calculus will be (1) if we go along and remove him now do we have time to revive the brand before 2020 vs. (2) what damage do we do by sticking with him if the evidence is compelling. If they do 2 they likely lose presidency and maybe senate (although that's unlikely). If they do (1) they likely lose presidency but should keep senate.
 
#22,536
#22,536
hog88 said:
Except he doesn't have anyone "on the record".
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#22,537
#22,537
volinbham said:
there's a difference between should he be removed if this particular charge is proven true and will he be if this particular charge is proven true.

On the should side this particular charge alone is not sufficient just as Clinton's perjury alone was not. Most of the rationales I see here are including other charges.

I cannot predict the "would" side.
Click to expand...


The difference is that he is telling Cohen to lie as Trump is under investigation for connections to Russia. Combine it with fabricating the adoption memo, firing people, etc., its WAY, WAY worse than Clinton lying about personal affairs that pale in comparison to national security risk.

Trying to compare this to Clinton really hurts your credibility.
 
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#22,538
#22,538
lawgator1 said:
The way it would work is that Trump woould be impeached and there would be a trial in the Senate.

Cohen would testify., The three remaining GOPers still standing by Trump would point out he has been convicted of perjury.

Trump would testify. 40 some odd Democrats and a few Republicans would point out all the times he has lied.

Trump would be convicted. Democrats would publicly rejoice in being freed of this embarrassment of a President. Republicans would secretly rejoice as well for the same reason.
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Why would Trump testify?
 
#22,541
#22,541
evillawyer said:
I think you're right. The calculus will be (1) if we go along and remove him now do we have time to revive the brand before 2020 vs. (2) what damage do we do by sticking with him if the evidence is compelling. If they do 2 they likely lose presidency and maybe senate (although that's unlikely). If they do (1) they likely lose presidency but should keep senate.
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yes but have a better chance at the WH than with #2 obviously and it becomes a crap shoot depending on what the Ds do. if they keep the march to the left there's an opening for someone on the R side that never cozied up to Trump but wasn't a complete never Trumper (IOW - Romney would have no chance)
 
#22,543
#22,543
lawgator1 said:
The way it would work is that Trump woould be impeached and there would be a trial in the Senate.

Cohen would testify., The three remaining GOPers still standing by Trump would point out he has been convicted of perjury.

Trump would testify. 40 some odd Democrats and a few Republicans would point out all the times he has lied.

Trump would be convicted. Democrats would publicly rejoice in being freed of this embarrassment of a President. Republicans would secretly rejoice as well for the same reason.
Click to expand...
LOL you are really setting yourself up for more disappointment
 
#22,544
#22,544
volinbham said:
yes but have a better chance at the WH than with #2 obviously and it becomes a crap shoot depending on what the Ds do. if they keep the march to the left there's an opening for someone on the R side that never cozied up to Trump but wasn't a complete never Trumper (IOW - Romney would have no chance)
Click to expand...

May be in Dems interest to let this proceed slowly to ensure Trump defeat in 2020 (assuming the evidence warranting removal is strong) and make GOP senators run while officially supporting Trump still.
 
#22,549
#22,549
Orange_Crush said:
I find it interesting that this hits shortly after info damaging to the three-letter agencies.
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An alternative explanation for the timing is that folks do not want to allow Barr and Trump to block us from knowing about it.

When it was first announced that Cohen was going to testify, my immediate first point was that he is going to get asked about the revelation in the sentencing documents that he spoke to an unidentified person at the WH prior to testifying to Congress about what he was going to say.

My three candidates for that were Don, Jr., Kush, or Trump, himself.

It just all makes sense. It is credible on its face. And if there is in fact proof of such direction to corroborate Cohen so testifying, I think that's going to be ball game.
 
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