Two UT basketball players arrested

[orange+white=heaven]

15grams of crack. I'm all for second chances for kids who manage to show their youth lack of good judgement, usually at the same time. This, however, takes on a level of seriousness that cannot be "second chanced".
I don't think Pearl can do anything but dismiss them.

Judging by crimedawg's evaluation of what they face[and he would have a pretty good idea], these kids' basketball futures are likely the least of their worries.

They always seem to think the really bad stuff only happens to someone else. What a shame.

 

[pedigovolfan]

I read that they were arrested at the corner of Keith Avenue and Schofield near Western Avenue in Knox. I say that leaves little doubt as to their intentions relative to resale.

 

[vader]

"Officers approached Smith's car after it was found parked blocking the sidewalk under a no parking sign outside a Knoxville nightclub. After noticing the odor of marijuana, police requested and were granted permission by the players to search Smith's Crown Victoria."

Not only are some of our players thugs, but they are stupid thugs. Were they trying to see how many laws they can break at one time? :nono:

 

[mattvols]

when will players learn to no be stupid, and do drugs. A little marijuanna i can see, but crack cocaine, thats rediculous.

 

[vader]

3 grams of marajuana and 15 grams of crack should not even be lumped into the same category of "drugs".

 

[lawgator1]

What you guys have to remember is that even though judges are required to follow sentencing guidlines based on the amount you possess, the prosecutors still have discretion to decide how much they will charge you with possessing. The type of charge that they face will probably depend on whether they rat somebody out. They also may be eligible for pretrial diversion if they have never had a serious charge before.

Maybe lawgator has a little more insight into this?

I'm in Florida and can't say what Tennessee prosecutors do. My practice is really civil, though there is some overlap. Here, despite minimum mandatories, it seem that there's sometimes ways around it in the right circumstances. Now, if the feds get involved, my impression is that they are a lot less willing to dumb things down and they really go after drug dealers. But I haven't heard or read anything about the feds being in on this at all.

The two things I would watch for is first any hint that other players are in any way involved. This could be a big distraction for your team if there is even a sugestion or suspicion that others have anything to do with it. Unfortunately, the timing on this could not be worse and I promise you that there will be discussion of it once the brackets come out and the talking head start in on the games.

When Pearl gets interviewd at the subregional, it will come up. He will be asked point blank if others are involved and what is being done to investigate, etc. It is a shame and casts a shadow on what has been a truly remarkable season.

Second, if everybody goes silent, that probably means that they are leaning on these kids to get to someone else. That is good if they are entirely outside your program. Bad if ....

When I first saw this story, I didn't think much of it. A couple of team scrubs with a joint. But now its crack cocaine and a fair amount and they are being charged with sales. Those who point out on here that there seems to be some inconsistency in the way we view pot versus crack are correct. There are a lot of reasons for that. Some vaild. Some not.

Bottom line is that when one thinks of Tennessee and particularly a college team, one does not think of crack dealers. In my view it is absolutely IMPERATIVE to your program's long term success that your school be divorced from this. These players have to be gone. If anyone else is involved -- and I don't care who it is -- they have to go, too. The school absolutely must take a zero tolerance view of this because it does hurt your image and in a way that is bigger than just the upcoming tournament.

 

[bizzllama]

smoking weed doesnt = potheads.

still, they dont seem very intelligent.

They could have just been transporting it for a large sum of money. Thats OK. At least they know how to make a buck or 2.

 

[bizzllama]

when will players learn to no be stupid, and do drugs. A little marijuanna i can see, but crack cocaine, thats rediculous.

Its Ok if your not a player but you desecrate the entire program if you get arrested and your on the team

 

[bizzllama]

Cocaine possession with intent to resale is a huge deal

REale is the only resaon they should of had it. They shouldnt be doing drugs during the seseson

 

[Vol423]

And anything less than 5 grams is for personal use.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished but the charge bogus

This is a typical stupid comment from Vol67. They had 3 times the volume of crack cocaine that they could have on them and still have it classified as personal use (like that would be a GOOD thing anyway), and you state that the charge is bogus?

 

[mattvols]

they have enough that is considered possession with the intent to sell,thats a lot more than personal use if you ask me

 

[vader]

they have enough that is considered possession with the intent to sell,thats a lot more than personal use if you ask me

I honestly know nothing about crack other than I want nothing to do with it. But a...uh friend tells me that 3 grams of pot is not much.

 

[mattvols]

I honestly know nothing about crack other than I want nothing to do with it. But a...uh friend tells me that 3 grams of pot is not much.

the pot wasnt serious, they might have stayed on the team with that. But it was the 15 grams of crack cocaine that could lock them up for a while

 

[VolBeef88]

They should be gone! No questions asked. This goes well beyond a fight or any other misdemenor. They should be gone and if CBP does not send them packing I will lose a lot of respect for him.

 

[hatvol96]

They should be gone! No questions asked. This goes well beyond a fight or any other misdemenor. They should be gone and if CBP does not send them packing I will lose a lot of respect for him.

That's the spirit. Tell parents you'll treat their kids as if they were your own during the recruiting process, then cut them loose at the first sign of trouble.

 

[orange+white=heaven]

That's the spirit. Tell parents you'll treat their kids as if they were your own during the recruiting process, then cut them loose at the first sign of trouble.

Come on Hat, this rises to a level of seriousness beyond "cuttin loose at the first sign..."

 

[hatvol96]

Come on Hat, this rises to a level of seriousness beyond "cuttin loose at the first sign..."

It depends. It is a well established fact, and a source of great debate in criminal justice circles, that crack cocaine produces higher "weights" than standard powder form. This isn't necessarily the forum to go into the racial, social, and political issues related to that fact. However, only having police report evidence, I'm not of a mind to call for the expulsion of the players. JamesOn Curry had a marijuana distribution charge in high school. UNC, in its typical, elitist way, pulled his scholarship. The kid has been a model citizen at Oklahoma State. I have absolutely no problem, short of substantiated allegations of a crime of serious violence,
with giving a kid a chance to redeem himself. What's the alternative? Aren't colleges in the education business? It seems to me the thing to do is give the players a chance to get themselves on the right track. Kicking them to the curb only serves to protect UT from a PR perspective.

 

[GOT TWELVE?]

Crack isn't a big deal guys, these guys shouldn't be booted off the team. :whistling:

 

[hatvol96]

Crack isn't a big deal guys, these guys shouldn't be booted off the team. :whistling:

You mind your house, we'll mind ours. By the way, have you been to visit Logan Young yet?

 

[orange+white=heaven]

It depends. It is a well established fact, and a source of great debate in criminal justice circles, that crack cocaine produces higher "weights" than standard powder form. This isn't necessarily the forum to go into the racial, social, and political issues related to that fact. However, only having police report evidence, I'm not of a mind to call for the expulsion of the players. JamesOn Curry had a marijuana distribution charge in high school. UNC, in its typical, elitist way, pulled his scholarship. The kid has been a model citizen at Oklahoma State. I have absolutely no problem, short of substantiated allegations of a crime of serious violence,
with giving a kid a chance to redeem himself. What's the alternative? Aren't colleges in the education business? It seems to me the thing to do is give the players a chance to get themselves on the right track. Kicking them to the curb only serves to protect UT from a PR perspective.

Your reluctance to act based only on a police report is likely wise.
Everyone deserves their day in court, and these young men will have theirs[arraignment March 14 BTW]. Notwithstanding your implied point about the differences in penalties between cocaine in powder and rock form, one stiil can't help but come to the reasonable conclusion that these charges are tremendously serious in nature. The drugs were in the car. The car was owned by a UT basketball player. This can not be tolerated. There are some crimes for which one's second chance only comes after time has been served. The courts will have their say, but this appears to be one of them.
Even if this is the "First sign of trouble" for these kids, the crime carries a penalty that cannot be walked away from. There are laws. This is one of them.

 

[hatvol96]

Your reluctance to act based only on a police report is likely wise.
Everyone deserves their day in court, and these young men will have theirs[arraignment March 14 BTW]. Notwithstanding your implied point about the differences in penalties between cocaine in powder and rock form, one stiil can't help but come to the reasonable conclusion that these charges are tremendously serious in nature. The drugs were in the car. The car was owned by a UT basketball player. This can not be tolerated. There are some crimes for which one's second chance only comes after time has been served. The courts will have their say, but this appears to be one of them.
Even if this is the "First sign of trouble" for these kids, the crime carries a penalty that cannot be walked away from. There are laws. This is one of them.

In a previous career, I was a criminal defense attorney. I never think acting on merely the allegations contained in a police report is wise. I agree that these, if proven, are serious charges. However, a plea arrangement that doesn't result in jail time is quite possible. I've seen and represented individuals with greater quantitites than this who received probation through a plea agreement. If they avoid jail, I would keep them on the squad.

 

[lawgator1]

In a previous career, I was a criminal defense attorney. I never think acting on merely the allegations contained in a police report is wise. I agree that these, if proven, are serious charges. However, a plea arrangement that doesn't result in jail time is quite possible. I've seen and represented individuals with greater quantitites than this who received probation through a plea agreement. If they avoid jail, I would keep them on the squad.

It would be truly foolish to tie their fate on the basketball team to whether they make a good plea deal. The issues are different. Your school and the team need to worry about a lot more than whether this offense justifies jail time or results in probation. Over the long haul, it does make a difference to your reputaiton as a basketball program and as a university. You are supposed to be an academic institution of higher learning with a basketball team that is poised to take you from annual SEC also-ran to annual NCAA tournament team. Now is not the time to coddle anyone or look the other way when there is serious criminal conduct afoot.

If it turns out that the two players were indeed involved in drug sales, even if they cut a deal for no jail time, do you really think that the damage to the reputation of the team is an acceptable consequence so as to honor the scholarship commitment or be super nice and give them a second chance?

At this level, no way.

 

[volinbham]

It would be truly foolish to tie their fate on the basketball team to whether they make a good plea deal. The issues are different. Your school and the team need to worry about a lot more than whether this offense justifies jail time or results in probation. Over the long haul, it does make a difference to your reputaiton as a basketball program and as a university. You are supposed to be an academic institution of higher learning with a basketball team that is poised to take you from annual SEC also-ran to annual NCAA tournament team. Now is not the time to coddle anyone or look the other way when there is serious criminal conduct afoot.

If it turns out that the two players were indeed involved in drug sales, even if they cut a deal for no jail time, do you really think that the damage to the reputation of the team is an acceptable consequence so as to honor the scholarship commitment or be super nice and give them a second chance?

At this level, no way.

The treatment for student athletes and students in general should be the same. If this offense would result in expulsion or removal of scholarship for a general student, then it likewise should for student-athletes.

In general, I believe students must adhere to the code of the university and failure to do so (as in this case if guilty) should result in consequences fitting the violation. It's nice to say people deserve a second (third, fourth, etc.) chance but attending the university and receiving a scholarship is not a right. People also must be held accountable for their actions.

 

[hatvol96]

It would be truly foolish to tie their fate on the basketball team to whether they make a good plea deal. The issues are different. Your school and the team need to worry about a lot more than whether this offense justifies jail time or results in probation. Over the long haul, it does make a difference to your reputaiton as a basketball program and as a university. You are supposed to be an academic institution of higher learning with a basketball team that is poised to take you from annual SEC also-ran to annual NCAA tournament team. Now is not the time to coddle anyone or look the other way when there is serious criminal conduct afoot.

If it turns out that the two players were indeed involved in drug sales, even if they cut a deal for no jail time, do you really think that the damage to the reputation of the team is an acceptable consequence so as to honor the scholarship commitment or be super nice and give them a second chance?

At this level, no way.

I don't think strong programs should spend their time concerned with how the fickle media views them. A program should make the decisions it wants to make, not the ones the media and public want. I'll use Cincinnati as an example, since I know a fair amount about the university and its program. The easy thing to do is to toss kids who have trouble. The mouthpieces in the media don't care about the kids, so nobody ever gets hit for throwing a kid off the team. UC, under Bob Huggins, always gave kids chances. Despite what the flawed NCAA numbers say, kids graduated and went on to success. The overwhelming majority of UC grads were happy with the program and proud of their school. Had they been concerned with what outsiders thought, that wouldn't have been the case. One of the main reasons they were able to recruit so well is that parents knew Huggs would stand by their kids, come good or bad. I simply would rather have a program run by a coach who stands on his beliefs, not what makes the schleps in the media happy. If Pearl truly believes this should result in dismissal, I would disagree, but I would feel comfortable with it. However, if he makes the move just to appease the Jackals in the Fourth Estate, he's not the man I believe him to be.
Finally, we both know if prosecutors feel the facts of this case are egregious enough, the decision will be taken out of Pearl's hands. That weight, under Tennesse law, would be nonprobatable. The players would have to serve time or be placed on some sort of stringent community corrections program. That result would render any debate moot.

 

[lawgator1]

The treatment for student athletes and students in general should be the same. If this offense would result in expulsion or removal of scholarship for a general student, then it likewise should for student-athletes.

In general, I believe students must adhere to the code of the university and failure to do so (as in this case if guilty) should result in consequences fitting the violation. It's nice to say people deserve a second (third, fourth, etc.) chance but attending the university and receiving a scholarship is not a right. People also must be held accountable for their actions.

I respectfully disagree. I feel that student-athletes, as representatives of the university, can and indeed should be held to a somewhat higher standard than sophomore # 4,722.