U.S. Navy Not Fit For War

#155
#155
volbound1700 said:
Trying to stay out of war didn't help US or even UK and France in the run-up to WW2. Sometimes war is just inevitable.
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Yep, sometimes people won’t stop until you stop them, and sometimes you’ve got to yank that chain so hard they know not to try again
 
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#157
#157
Grand Vol said:
Nobody ever wins against insurgents. Don't care what the manual says; as long as they are willing to die for their cause and have a support base (willingly or unwillingly) no true insurgency will ever be defeated.
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It's not impossible, but no one wants to go to the measures it would take to truly eradicate an insurgency.

Never start a war you're not willing to do whatever it takes to win.
 
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#160
#160
Orangeburst said:
Never got how FDR was so revered..Everyone saw war coming and he piddled. Totally unprepared and a failure of leadership.
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The American public would not have supported a war prior to Pearl Harbor. FDR tried to help as much as he could from sideline and prepare us for war.

However, he is overrated. He is very much a mixed bag. His ideas were popular in his era but some of the laws/agencies that he created have NOT aged well and were detriments in our country in the long-term.

If you look at FDR in his era, he did a great job. If you look at future impact of many of his policies, they have been damaging in the long-term.
 
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#161
#161
The embargo was a last ditch effort to get the Japanese to come to the negotiating table. Honestly, the USA only got involved when the Japanese threatened US territorial interests. Our gov probably would have been fine with Japan staying in China. But when they started taking places like Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines, and threatening Australia, the US was forced to intervene. Pearl Harbor was a gamble the Japanese had to take, because they would not have been able to keep all the territory they took without a direct conflict with the US.

I recommend listening to Dan Carlin’s “hardcore history” podcast. His latest series is about the pacific theater and more specifically how Japan became a militarized society and the ensuing consequences.
 
#162
#162
People forget that the reason US is so active in the world and created NATO and Pacific Alliances, etc. was a result of World War 2. USA sat across the world with the opinion that it was someone else's problem to fix and then the war started creeping towards our backyard once the Axis Powers enjoyed victory after victory.
 
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#163
#163
volbound1700 said:
So you think that NOT embargoing Japan would have stopped World War 2?
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Is that what I said? Or did I just debunk the notion that we did all we could to avoid war with Japan?

volbound1700 said:
You don't even account for Germany or Italy in your response.
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We should have learned our lesson from WWI and not jumped in to the affairs of Europe. WWII would have never happened without the Treaty of Versailles.
 
#165
#165
lawgator1 said:
Really? A fire on a ship was caused by spending too much time on diversity training?

Give me a break.
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You know what we did on our way back from our med. cruise? We ran fire drills with our in-port duty sections. Over and over again until we pulled into port.

When you spend all your training time on diversity you don't have a lot of time to learn how to be a war fighter.
 
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#167
#167
VolinMichigan said:
The embargo was a last ditch effort to get the Japanese to come to the negotiating table. Honestly, the USA only got involved when the Japanese threatened US territorial interests. Our gov probably would have been fine with Japan staying in China. But when they started taking places like Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines, and threatening Australia, the US was forced to intervene. Pearl Harbor was a gamble the Japanese had to take, because they would not have been able to keep all the territory they took without a direct conflict with the US.

I recommend listening to Dan Carlin’s “hardcore history” podcast. His latest series is about the pacific theater and more specifically how Japan became a militarized society and the ensuing consequences.
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This is factually false. The Japanese were only in China at the time of Pearl Harbor when the US applied the embargo, so obviously, they were not just fine with even that move. It wasn't until after Pearl Harbor that Japan attacked American assets in the Philippines and Guam.

Malaysia and Singapore were British crown territories and Indonesia was where the Dutch had the prime oil reserves of the region.
 
#168
#168
volbound1700 said:
People forget that the reason US is so active in the world and created NATO and Pacific Alliances, etc. was a result of World War 2. USA sat across the world with the opinion that it was someone else's problem to fix and then the war started creeping towards our backyard once the Axis Powers enjoyed victory after victory.
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When did either WWI or WWII ever creep into our backyard? Where did you learn US history or geography?
 
#169
#169
Rickyvol77 said:
He’s against stopping evil
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We should mind our own affairs and only engage others in commerce, not in foreign entanglements.

Our Documents - Transcript of President George Washington's Farewell Address (1796)

The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as we have already formed engagements, let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here let us stop. Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none; or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people under an efficient government. the period is not far off when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality we may at any time resolve upon to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them.
 
#170
#170
Mac Boles said:
You know what we did on our way back from our med. cruise? We ran fire drills with our in-port duty sections. Over and over again until we pulled into port.

When you spend all your training time on diversity you don't have a lot of time to learn how to be a war fighter.
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Same here. Everyone on my ship was a hell of a firefighter once we hit port. The BHR incident is still unbelievable to me. Ships crew, base FFs, and San Diego County couldn't put that fire out......blows my mind
 
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#171
#171
Rasputin_Vol said:
When did either WWI or WWII ever creep into our backyard? Where did you learn US history or geography?
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WW1 I agree with. However, WW2 was a necessary war and the US almost waited too long to join. Both Japan and Germany had plans to attack or force the US to cede to their “peaceful terms” of world conquest.

Only a short sighted idiot would think that the US should not have gotten involved in the conflict. It literally was for freedom of the entire world (outside of the liberal cessation to the Soviets)
 
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#172
#172
Mac Boles said:
You know what we did on our way back from our med. cruise? We ran fire drills with our in-port duty sections. Over and over again until we pulled into port.

When you spend all your training time on diversity you don't have a lot of time to learn how to be a war fighter.
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Link that the crew spent "all" of their training on diversity?

Or in the alternative admit that you are exaggerating way over the top.
 
#173
#173
Rickyvol77 said:
WW1 I agree with. However, WW2 was a necessary war and the US almost waited too long to join. Both Japan and Germany had plans to attack or force the US to cede to their “peaceful terms” of world conquest.

Only a short sighted idiot would think that the US should not have gotten involved in the conflict. It literally was for freedom of the entire world (outside of the liberal cessation to the Soviets)
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The Germans would have fizzled out without any Caucuses Mountain oil streams and the British had plenty of resources within their commonwealth nations across the globe. Same with the French. Italy would have been dragged into a quagmire in North Africa and would have been a non-factor. And I'm not sure we wouldn't have been much better with Japan running things in Asia instead of Communist China.
 
#174
#174
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Germans would have fizzled out without any Caucuses Mountain oil streams and the British had plenty of resources within their commonwealth nations across the globe. Same with the French. Italy would have been dragged into a quagmire in North Africa and would have been a non-factor. And I'm not sure we wouldn't have been much better with Japan running things in Asia instead of Communist China.
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Japanese were more vicious than the Nazis
 
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