U.S. Navy Not Fit For War

#176
#176
Rasputin_Vol said:
When did either WWI or WWII ever creep into our backyard? Where did you learn US history or geography?
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So you think we should not have gone to war with Germany and let them conquer the UK and Soviet Union as well as let Japan conquer China? That would have been better for the United States.

Also keep in mind we were already being attacked. U-Boats hitting shipping off East Coast, Japan bombing Americans traveling to China, etc.

You cannot just sit here and hope an enemy goes away. I would love to be an opposing country against you because I could easily defeat and conquer any country you ran with your stupid and weak mentality.
 
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#177
#177
Rickyvol77 said:
WW1 I agree with. However, WW2 was a necessary war and the US almost waited too long to join. Both Japan and Germany had plans to attack or force the US to cede to their “peaceful terms” of world conquest.

Only a short sighted idiot would think that the US should not have gotten involved in the conflict. It literally was for freedom of the entire world (outside of the liberal cessation to the Soviets)
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To be fair, the Kaiser had ambitious on USA prior to WW1. Read up on it. The Kaiser wasn't as evil as Hitler but he was definitely an imperialist that had no respect for Democracy.
 
#178
#178
Rickyvol77 said:
Japanese were more vicious than the Nazis
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Arguing who is crueler between Germany and Japan is like arguing whether LSU or Tennessee had a worse season in 2020. Both were utterly evil and cruel in this period. The Soviets were pretty bad as well. Heck, even the Western Allies engaged in Civilian Carpet Bombing.

To be honest, the "Rules of War" is really dumb. When a real war breaks out, you have to bomb civilians to survive.
 
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#180
#180
volbound1700 said:
So you think we should not have gone to war with Germany and let them conquer the UK and Soviet Union as well as let Japan conquer China? That would have been better for the United States.

Also keep in mind we were already being attacked. U-Boats hitting shipping off East Coast, Japan bombing Americans traveling to China, etc.

You cannot just sit here and hope an enemy goes away. I would love to be an opposing country against you because I could easily defeat and conquer any country you ran with your stupid and weak mentality.
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Germany was never going to conquer Britain and Russia. They had already failed on both counts by the time the US entered the war.
 
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#182
#182
volbound1700 said:
Arguing who is crueler between Germany and Japan is like arguing whether LSU or Tennessee had a worse season in 2020. Both were utterly evil and cruel in this period. The Soviets were pretty bad as well. Heck, even the Western Allies engaged in Civilian Carpet Bombing.

To be honest, the "Rules of War" is really dumb. When a real war breaks out, you have to bomb civilians to survive.
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The winners decide what was fair, and write the history books......until their soft great grandchildren don't realize they'd have never been born, or would be slaves........
 
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#184
#184
Pepe_Silvia said:
Germany was never going to conquer Britain and Russia. They had already failed on both counts by the time the US entered the war.
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The British ISle was toast, maybe they planned to move "headquarters" to one of their colonies, Chamberlain had them decimated.
 
#185
#185
Pepe_Silvia said:
They were doomed once they failed to deliver a knockout blow to Russia in 1941 and they never possessed the resources to launch a full-scale invasion of Britain.
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If they would have invaded Britain within 6 months to a year after conquering France Germany stood a good chance. I agree that even had they taken Stalingrad Germany couldn't have held Russia long. Invading Russia was a dumb move, Hitler should have concentrated on defeating England except he really wanted England to negotiate a peace with Germany and have them ally against the Soviets.
 
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#186
#186
hog88 said:
If they would have invaded Britain within 6 months to a year after conquering France Germany stood a good chance. I agree that even had they taken Stalingrad Germany couldn't have held Russia long. Invading Russia was a dumb move, Hitler should have concentrated on defeating England except he really wanted England to negotiate a peace with Germany and have them ally against the Soviets.
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I don't think an invasion of Britain was ever a realistic option for Germany. Assembling an invasion force to cross the English Channel was a monumental enough task for America and Britain combined. I don't see any way Germany alone could have accomplished it.

Germany invaded Russia out of a desperate need for oil.
 
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#187
#187
Pepe_Silvia said:
I don't think an invasion of Britain was ever a realistic option for Germany. Assembling an invasion force to cross the English Channel was a monumental enough task for America and Britain combined. I don't see any way Germany alone could have accomplished it.
Germany invaded Russia out of a desperate need for oil.
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Depends on long-term plan. Russia obtained a lot of necessary support from US to survive. Similarly, the bombing raids, distractions in North Africa, invasions of Italy, etc. pulled resources away from Eastern Front that could have made a difference.

Had US not got involved, Germany's chances of winning increase and you cannot argue that. Germany still had a chance in 1942. After Stalingrad, though, they were done for.

BTW, the North African Campaign saw the largest surrender of the Axis in the War (even more than Stalingrad).

Regarding UK, if Germany had beaten Russia, than they could have had the oil and resources to begin a major shipbuilding campaign to match the Royal Navy. Germany could have realized Plan Z and built 6-7 Super Battleships, 5 Aircraft Carriers, etc.
 
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#188
#188
Pepe_Silvia said:
I don't think an invasion of Britain was ever a realistic option for Germany. Assembling an invasion force to cross the English Channel was a monumental enough task for America and Britain combined. I don't see any way Germany alone could have accomplished it.

Germany invaded Russia out of a desperate need for oil.
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Germany wasn't desperate for oil, they had the synthetic plants cranking out more than 100,000 barrels a day plus the Romanian fields and refineries. Barbarossa was mainly due Hitler's vanity and hatred for the Bolsheviks.
 
#189
#189
Pepe_Silvia said:
Germany invaded Russia out of a desperate need for oil.
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And the crazy thing was they had more oil than they knew what to do with right under their feet in North Africa. Had they been able to exploit the oil in Libya and Algeria, who cares about the Soviets at that point?

I mean, yeah, Hitler was going to invade the Soviet Union at some point, but they had the oil, they just didn't know it.
 
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#190
#190
Kind of a lengthy read but reference the Wikipedia Article and Sources: Military history of the United States during World War II - Wikipedia

US lend-lease saved the Allies. The Soviets were in real danger in both 1941 and 1942 and this is why Stalin was clamouring for a second front. The campaigns by UK and USA in Africa, Italy, and eventually France plus, the naval interventions to stop the U-Boats by US Fleet, the strategic bombing of German industry, and the lend-lease of supplies to the Soviet Union was vital to winning the war.

Even Stalin admits it in his quote in Tehran that is cited in the article.
 
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#191
#191
Here is more comments that points out that Germany was a REAL threat to London and Moscow:

Although President Franklin D. Roosevelt's advisers warned that the Soviet Union would collapse from the Nazi advance within weeks, he barred Congress from blocking aid to the Soviet Union on the advice of Harry Hopkins.[7]

In the 29 March 1941 report of the ABC-1 conference, the Americans and British agreed that their strategic objectives were: (1) "The early defeat of Germany as the predominant member of the Axis with the principal military effort of the United States being exerted in the Atlantic and European area; and (2) A strategic defensive in the Far East." Thus, the Americans concurred with the British in the grand strategy of "Europe first" (or "Germany first") in carrying out military operations in World War II. The UK feared that, if the United States was diverted from its main focus in Europe to the Pacific (Japan), Hitler might crush both the Soviet Union and Britain, and would then become an unconquerable fortress in Europe. The wound inflicted on the United States by Japan at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, did not result in a change in US policy. Prime Minister Winston Churchill hastened to Washington shortly after Pearl Harbor for the Arcadia Conference to ensure that the Americans didn't have second thoughts about Europe First. The two countries reaffirmed that, "notwithstanding the entry of Japan into the War, our view remains that Germany is still the prime enemy. And her defeat is the key to victory. Once Germany is defeated the collapse of Italy and the defeat of Japan must follow."

Without American production, the United Nations could never have won the war.​
— Joseph Stalin during a dinner at the Tehran Conference, 1943[21][22]


The United States entered the war in the west with Operation Torch on 8 November 1942, after their Soviet allies had pushed for a second front against the Germans.
 
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#192
#192
so I just saw a video of what Russia claims is a hypersonic cruise missile sea launched from a frigate. All I can say is LMFAO. There is no damn way that short burn in a vertical launch profile ever reached hypersonic speeds. Lying sacks of **** 😂
 
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#193
#193
volbound1700 said:
So you think we should not have gone to war with Germany and let them conquer the UK and Soviet Union as well as let Japan conquer China? That would have been better for the United States.
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The Germans would have not come close to pulling off winning a two front war in Europe with limited energy resources available to them. In addition to that, they were then going to cross the Atlantic and start making gaining ground in North America, also?

volbound1700 said:
Also keep in mind we were already being attacked. U-Boats hitting shipping off East Coast, Japan bombing Americans traveling to China, etc.
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We never learned our lesson from WWI. We continued to to help the British just like we did with loading the Lusitania with munitions. Maybe if England and France had been more concerned with protecting their homeland instead of maintain their empires, they may have had plenty of resources available to call in without US assistance.

volbound1700 said:
You cannot just sit here and hope an enemy goes away. I would love to be an opposing country against you because I could easily defeat and conquer any country you ran with your stupid and weak mentality.
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There is no way in hell Germany should have been able to be as dangerous of an adversary as they were less than a generation after the Treaty of Versailles. So what did Germany do that was different that helped them to regain their footing while Britain and France stagnated?
 
#194
#194
volbound1700 said:
Arguing who is crueler between Germany and Japan is like arguing whether LSU or Tennessee had a worse season in 2020. Both were utterly evil and cruel in this period. The Soviets were pretty bad as well. Heck, even the Western Allies engaged in Civilian Carpet Bombing.

To be honest, the "Rules of War" is really dumb. When a real war breaks out, you have to bomb civilians to survive.
Click to expand...

Interesting... That is real easy for an American to say when no bombs have been dropped on our soil and wiped out thousands at a time.
 
#197
#197
Wireless1 said:
The British ISle was toast, maybe they planned to move "headquarters" to one of their colonies, Chamberlain had them decimated.
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And yet Britain still had remnants of their premier navy left that would have easily choked off any supplies Germany would have needed. And as we well know now (and even back then they were aware), all the bombing in the world still wouldn't replace a ground attack. Now does anyone in here think Germany would have been able to achieve a successful amphibious attack on Britain? D-Day in reverse? Hell, the US bombed the hell out of Japan and still were weary about having to face boots on the ground in Japan.
 
#198
#198
Grand Vol said:
And the crazy thing was they had more oil than they knew what to do with right under their feet in North Africa. Had they been able to exploit the oil in Libya and Algeria, who cares about the Soviets at that point?

I mean, yeah, Hitler was going to invade the Soviet Union at some point, but they had the oil, they just didn't know it.
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Lets suppose they did know it, how would it have gotten from there to the mainland? Britain still had a formidable navy. Their only hope was an over land route to gain their oil needs.
 
#199
#199
Pepe_Silvia said:
I don't think an invasion of Britain was ever a realistic option for Germany. Assembling an invasion force to cross the English Channel was a monumental enough task for America and Britain combined. I don't see any way Germany alone could have accomplished it.

Germany invaded Russia out of a desperate need for oil.
Click to expand...
This
 
#200
#200
hog88 said:
Germany wasn't desperate for oil, they had the synthetic plants cranking out more than 100,000 barrels a day plus the Romanian fields and refineries. Barbarossa was mainly due Hitler's vanity and hatred for the Bolsheviks.
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So much oil yet they were still using horse-drawn carts for military transport in the 1940s. Doesn't make sense.

The Caucasus oil fields were a major influence on hitlers decision to invade russia.
 
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