U.S. serviceman opens fire on Afghan civilians

#101
#101
NEOCON said:
my name is a joke.

i do not think you can help a country unless the majority of people in it want help and have a clear idea of how they would like to change the country. you can not help a country that has split factions that are already at war with each other.

i am for a very strong national defense, protecting our trade routes, and trade, and our homeland, but I am very much against nation building. Nation building is a huge burden on the tax payer and takes a trained soldiers who is taught to kill and places them in a situation that is not designed for them. It also takes away a clear motive for why the soldier is there and causes doubt to set in over the need for the mission at all.

but on the flip side of that, I am all for bombing the crap out of someone who attacks us.
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Totally agree. Democracy isn't for everyone. It can be as bad as a dictatorship if the people don't value it.
 
#102
#102
NEOCON said:
fighting a war and nation building are not the same thing and people need to understand this.

we need to learn to walk away when the smoke is still in the skies and say job well done to our troops.

not say good job blowing that building up now lets stick around and help them build a new one and teach them democracy.
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We've been doing it since the Marshall Plan. The military and US interests are sticking around longer to help the Afghans, in this case, build an infrastructure and learn how to operate in world trade other than opium. I don't disagree with that mission.
 
#103
#103
hohenfelsvol said:
We've been doing it since the Marshall Plan. The military and US interests are sticking around longer to help the Afghans, in this case, build an infrastructure and learn how to operate in world trade other than opium. I don't disagree with that mission.
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I don't disagree with the objectives. It's the results that I'm worried about.
 
#106
#106
hohenfelsvol said:
We've been doing it since the Marshall Plan. The military and US interests are sticking around longer to help the Afghans, in this case, build an infrastructure and learn how to operate in world trade other than opium. I don't disagree with that mission.
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in theory, it's nice.

in reality, it's a waste of time.

let me ask you this...if florida invaded your city and stuck around for 10 years would you become a gator fan? or would you maybe pretend to be a gator fan at best but go back to cheering on the vols when they left?
 
#111
#111
NEOCON said:
fighting a war and nation building are not the same thing and people need to understand this.

we need to learn to walk away when the smoke is still in the skies and say job well done to our troops.

not say good job blowing that building up now lets stick around and help them build a new one and teach them democracy.
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I'm not saying we need to rebuild everything we destroy, but a blanket policy like this and we don't pursue the Marshall Plan. Without that plan, the Soviets more than likely step in and gain a foothold if not outright control of Western Europe. If you think the Cold War was expensive the way it happened, the alternate scenario I suggested results in the US going bankrupt and falling rather than the USSR. We spent a bunch of money on rebuilding Western Europe, but would have spent even more fighting the ideas, influences, or even the militaries, most likely communist militaries, had we abandoned them to the Soviets. Same could be said for Japan.

The situations need to be carefully assessed on an individual basis. No one blanket policy of always rebuilding or never rebuilding what is destroyed in war is optimal. There are situations where it is in our best long term interests and situations where it is more trouble and expensive than it's worth. Just my views based off history.
 
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#113
#113
Very sad story.

U.N. calls for justice after Afghanistan massacre - chicagotribune.com

This really hurts our mission over there. The people over there hate us so much for invading their country already, this will only make it worse. We should've pulled out completely a long time ago (that's what she said).

But seriously, it's a sad day for our US military and the families of those victims.
 
#114
#114
KoachKrab127 said:
Very sad story.

U.N. calls for justice after Afghanistan massacre - chicagotribune.com

This really hurts our mission over there. The people over there hate us so much for invading their country already, this will only make it worse. We should've pulled out completely a long time ago (that's what she said).

But seriously, it's a sad day for our US military and the families of those victims.
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Do we even have a mission over there? ('We' as in the country, not 'we' as in our army)
 
#117
#117
execute him or life in leavenworth? i'm guessing execution since the mitary will conduct the trial.
 
#119
#119
U.S. lacks proof on Afghan shooting: suspect's lawyer | Reuters

U.S. authorities lack proof of what occurred the night a U.S. soldier is suspected of killing 16 villagers in Afghanistan, the lawyer representing the serviceman said on Tuesday.

"I'm very concerned now they don't have much proof of anything," attorney John Henry Browne told Reuters after meeting with U.S. Army Staff Sergeant Robert Bales on Tuesday for a second day in a military detention center in Kansas.
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"I don't know what the evidence is," Browne told reporters. "We've all heard the allegations. I don't know that the government has proved much. There is no forensic evidence, there is no confession."
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An announcement was issued that Bales, currently incacerated at Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas, would be charged last Saturday but that hasn't materialized and as of now, no charge has yet been filed.

No doubt our astute AG is working feverishly on that.

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#122
#122
So the thread has to be about Afghan civililians rather than about Bales?

I hate dialecticians!
 
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