Ukraine Protests

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#76
#76
Burhead said:
Just saw this pop up on my Twitter feed:



It's a free article from StratFor
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I looked for the article but couldn't find it. Translation? Who is pro-right in this conflict? I would think the pro-Russian side, but who knows how that dynamic works over there.
 
#78
#78
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
Somebody's going to get screwed or worst & it will probably be the protesters.
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Depends. If government forces like the Interior Ministry are starting to go over to the protesters side and actively participate against the government, it's a whole new ball game. Or even if they declare neutrality and refuse to take a side is amounts to the same thing.

The military is the wild card in this. And asking a bunch of conscripted kids to go in and shoot at their buddies and family members is a chancy proposition at best. You are just as likely to lose control of the military at the same time.

Messy.
 
#79
#79
volprof said:
I looked for the article but couldn't find it. Translation? Who is pro-right in this conflict? I would think the pro-Russian side, but who knows how that dynamic works over there.
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This is just what I pulled from wiki;

Pravy Sektor - Far-right, Ukrainian Nationalism
Our Ukraine–People's Self-Defense Bloc - Liberalism, Conservatism, Reformist, Pro-European

As for the article that's all I could get with the free report sorry.
 
#80
#80
Grand Vol said:
Depends. If government forces like the Interior Ministry are starting to go over to the protesters side and actively participate against the government, it's a whole new ball game. Or even if they declare neutrality and refuse to take a side is amounts to the same thing.

The military is the wild card in this. And asking a bunch of conscripted kids to go in and shoot at their buddies and family members is a chancy proposition at best. You are just as likely to lose control of the military at the same time.

Messy.
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For some reason I thought they Ukrainians had phased out conscription & switched to an all-volunteer force.
 
#81
#81
Burhead said:
For some reason I thought they Ukrainians had phased out conscription & switched to an all-volunteer force.
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According to wiki (my bad) the majority is still of conscription service, but there are some contractual members as well.
 
#82
#82
Grand Vol said:
According to wiki (my bad) the majority is still of conscription service, but there are some contractual members as well.
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Thanks, I thought they switched in the early 2000s. Slightly off topic but an interesting tidbit; had Ukraine not given up it's nuclear weapons it would hold the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Greater than the combined totals of Britain, China, and France.
 
#83
#83
Burhead said:
Thanks, I thought they switched in the early 2000s. Slightly off topic but an interesting tidbit; had Ukraine not given up it's nuclear weapons it would hold the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Greater than the combined totals of Britain, China, and France.
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I recall seeing something along those lines myself, but apparently it hasn't happened yet.

Either way, a conscription or volunteer force will be faced with the same moral dilemma of whether or not to fire on their countrymen and potentially friends and family.
 
#84
#84
The Kyiv Post seems to confirming that StratFor blurb about Interior troops joining the protesters & arming them in the city of Lutsk.
 
#85
#85
TIFWIW;

Three European foreign ministers who met President Yanukovych on Thursday say they have found a willingness to call early elections to resolve the three-months long crisis, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk tells reporters. "A willingness for early elections, already this year, parliamentary as well as presidential, was agreed," Tusk said, quoted by Reuters.

Foreign ministers from Poland, France and Germany have spent the day talking to both sides about a possible roadmap leading to a peaceful solution.
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Believe it when I see it.
 
#86
#86
Burhead said:
This is just what I pulled from wiki;

Pravy Sektor - Far-right, Ukrainian Nationalism
Our Ukraine–People's Self-Defense Bloc - Liberalism, Conservatism, Reformist, Pro-European

As for the article that's all I could get with the free report sorry.
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Okay, thanks for some clarification.
 
#87
#87
To me, the current administration condemning another country for ramming an unpopular agenda down the throats of the people seems ironic. The only difference between America and Ukraine is that in Ukraine you get shot. In America, you get labeled a racist, a thief, or a religious zealot.
 
#88
#88
dmart71 said:
To me, the current administration condemning another country for ramming an unpopular agenda down the throats of the people seems ironic. The only difference between America and Ukraine is that in Ukraine you get shot. In America, you get labeled a racist, a thief, or a religious zealot.
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Any American administration condemning another country for said actions is ironic and, I might add, a fact of life. They've all done it.
 
#89
#89
volprof said:
Any American administration condemning another country for said actions is ironic and, I might add, a fact of life. They've all done it.
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Exactly, I hate how we get involved in these conflicts. If the masses want it enough, itll happen by their force, or it won't stick and we end up with a split country for decades to come.
 
#90
#90
From the BBC live feed:

Roland Oliphant, Daily Telegraph Moscow Correspondent

tweets: Lots of rumours about ministers, parliamentary speaker, Yanukovych family members flying out of Ukraine. Unconfirmed.
20:31:

More from parliament - 239 out of 450 Ukrainian MPs are present in the hall, most of them representing opposition parties. The MPs sang the national anthem after passing the resolution, BBC Monitoring observes.
20:28:

MPs assembled in the Ukrainian parliament have voted to condemn the recent violence, ban the use of weapons against protesters, withdraw troops and the police deployed against them - via our colleagues at BBC Monitoring, who are following the parliamentary proceedings relayed live on Ukraine's ICTV.
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#92
#92
UTVOLFAN said:
I'm flying to Kiev tomorrow afternoon, I'll let you all know how it is.
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Business? Anyhow, stay safe.

On another note, I had forgotten that Vitali Klitchsko is now a Ukrainian politician. Apparently he's one of the opposition leaders.
 
#94
#94
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Kiev, that's just crazy. The Healthy Ministry says 75 dead, 571 injured since the 18th.
 
#100
#100
I know this is big F'ing picture (and there's probably only a .1% chance it reaches this level), but you also have to wonder how Russian military involvement in the Ukraine would affect rebel movements in the Caucasus and in Siberia. The Caucasian rebels would probably love a distracted Russian military in the South.
 
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