Undisciplined team

#151
#151
SmokeyLives said:
What? Explain yourself. You might have a million posts on this site but I’ve been on here for just as much time. I’m an 84 Alum and don’t appreciate the sentiment. So get off my back. Haven’t you people heard of diversity? Look it up in the dictionary for some enlightenment. Have a good day.
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The long running VN joke is that fights amongst posters occur in the Waffle House parking lot. Your response above to the poster suggesting you GTFO sounded like a rendezvous at your local Waffle House parking lot was in order. TGO was just helping out with the logistics of it.
 
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#152
#152
SmokyRiverDog said:
Sure, I can. Past results in recruiting leading to this failed season demonstrate clearly that he did not earn that level of pay.
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Of course you can (and I am sure you will...lol) continue to bend and twist your logic while cherry-picking facts which fit your narrative but, as my mama said so eloquently, "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, otherwise, you might make yourself look like a fool".

Just to be clear, CRB is accountable for on-court results and you are entitled to your opinion but ignoring where our program was (and how that impaired recruiting early in CRB's tenure which we are feeling the consequences of today) and where it is now overall even in spite of this season is silly because it fails to recognize all of the reasons why CRB got paid (e.g., player development, in game coaching, SEC regular season champs, #1 rated team, national COY, best recruiting class maybe ever, etc...) and it greatly diminishes how hard it is to turnaround a Power 5 dumpster fire but, yeah, let's go with your strategy of not paying CRB...lol.

Sorry, but the days of UT basketball being in perpetual coaching search mode are over thanks to CRB and our future is bright! Now, as I said before, carry on with your shtick...we are done here.
 
#153
#153
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Of course you can (and I am sure you will...lol) continue to bend and twist your logic while cherry-picking facts which fit your narrative but, as my mama said so eloquently, "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, otherwise, you might make yourself look like a fool".

Just to be clear, CRB is accountable for on-court results and you are entitled to your opinion but ignoring where our program was (and how that impaired recruiting early in CRB's tenure which we are feeling the consequences of today) and where it is now overall even in spite of this season is silly because it fails to recognize all of the reasons why CRB got paid (e.g., player development, in game coaching, SEC regular season champs, #1 rated team, national COY, best recruiting class maybe ever, etc...) and it greatly diminishes how hard it is to turnaround a Power 5 dumpster fire but, yeah, let's go with your strategy of not paying CRB...lol.

Sorry, but the days of UT basketball being in perpetual coaching search mode are over thanks to CRB and our future is bright! Now, as I said before, carry on with your shtick...we are done here.
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Except that is not remotely why CRB "got paid". You go on thinking that, though.
 
#154
#154
SmokyRiverDog said:
Except that is not remotely why CRB "got paid". You go on thinking that, though.
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Come on, man...really? It doesn’t require a whole lot of extrapolation to determine that Rick Barnes was going to be paid by UCLA as a result of all of those aforementioned accomplishments. Tennessee was put in a position to either match that level of compensation or risk losing the coach who had brought them back to relevance. So, in essence, he was being rewarded in one way or another, directly or indirectly.

Those opposed to his raise and who view it as a strong-arm tactic will incorrectly say that he played Tennessee into a undeserved pay raise. In truth, however, UCLA reset his market value. Tennessee made a financial decision both to reward his past performance and additionally to wager on him replicating and building upon that success.

On the floor, this year was going to be a down year whether he received a pay raise or not, whether he made $3.5 million or $5 million. To be fair, he and his staff are partly to blame for that, though it is also fair to wonder how things may have turned out differently had Turner not been injured, James doesn’t miss the entire preseason, and Plavsic is ruled eligible from the start. Those were all unfortunate breaks, and it might be a difference of 2-3 more wins, at this point. Still, beyond this season is where we should realistically expect to see that investment pay dividends. We are already seeing a return in recruiting, which is collectively a byproduct of recent on-court success, relationships, and stability. The latter two are in tact because of Tennessee’s decision to financially invest in the program and the coach.

You don’t have to agree with his current salary, but it is difficult to argue that we would be better positioned for the immediate future had we chosen to not pay him and started over with someone else.
 
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#155
#155
cncchris33 said:
Come on, man...really? It doesn’t require a whole lot of extrapolation to determine that Rick Barnes was going to be paid by UCLA as a result of all of those aforementioned accomplishments. Tennessee was put in a position to either match that level of compensation or risk losing the coach who had brought them back to relevance. So, in essence, he was being rewarded in one way or another, directly or indirectly.

Those opposed to his raise and who view it as a strong-arm tactic will incorrectly say that he played Tennessee into a undeserved pay raise. In truth, however, UCLA reset his market value. Tennessee made a financial decision both to reward his past performance and additionally to wager on him replicating and building upon that success.

On the floor, this year was going to be a down year whether he received a pay raise or not, whether he made $3.5 million or $5 million. To be fair, he and his staff are partly to blame for that, though it is also fair to wonder how things may have turned out differently had Turner not been injured, James doesn’t miss the entire preseason, and Plavsic is ruled eligible from the start. Those were all unfortunate breaks, and it might be a difference of 2-3 more wins, at this point. Still, beyond this season is where we should realistically expect to see that investment pay dividends. We are already seeing a return in recruiting, which is collectively a byproduct of recent on-court success, relationships, and stability. The latter two are in tact because of Tennessee’s decision to financially invest in the program and the coach.

You don’t have to agree with his current salary, but it is difficult to argue that we would be better positioned for the immediate future had we chosen to not pay him and started over with someone else.
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I never argued he should not have been retained after the UCLA flirtation. I agree Tennessee is better off with him. He did, however, take full advantage of two programs in difficult circumstances. In the end, I think those actions and his resulting salary warrant increased scrutiny and criticism when not fully achieving.
 
#156
#156
SmokyRiverDog said:
I never argued he should not have been retained after the UCLA flirtation. I agree Tennessee is better off with him. He did, however, take full advantage of two programs in difficult circumstances. In the end, I think those actions and his resulting salary warrant increased scrutiny and criticism when not fully achieving.
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I don’t necessarily disagree that his increased salary should necessitate greater expectations. I just don’t agree that those expectations necessarily should have changed the outlook for this season. Receiving a pay bump in April doesn’t allow much time to adjust the outlook for the following season, which was already due to be a down year relative to the two previous seasons. The die was already cast for 2019-20 when he received the new contract. The only thing he could really alter and control at that point was recruiting, and he immediately signed one of the highest ranked classes in school history. If we are struggling next season, criticism will be well-deserved.
 
#157
#157
cncchris33 said:
The long running VN joke is that fights amongst posters occur in the Waffle House parking lot. Your response above to the poster suggesting you GTFO sounded like a rendezvous at your local Waffle House parking lot was in order. TGO was just helping out with the logistics of it.
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Childish
 
#159
#159
So I wonder where this salary vs production standard comes from, the fans, athletic director, some other third party? What is Barnes standard for himself, this is the one I am more interested in.
 
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#160
#160
SmokyRiverDog said:
I never argued he should not have been retained after the UCLA flirtation. I agree Tennessee is better off with him. He did, however, take full advantage of two programs in difficult circumstances. In the end, I think those actions and his resulting salary warrant increased scrutiny and criticism when not fully achieving.
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"He took full advantage" = free market

Also, it was a smart move IMO given stances like yours as CRB knew this was likely a down year (although probably not this down given all that has happened) and he might need the full support of Fulmer.
 
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#162
#162
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Ok...I will bite...pray tell why did we make him a top-5 paid coach if it wasn't for what he accomplished?
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No, you're right. He is a Top 5 coach at a near blue blood institution and hoops factory. There were no extenuating circumstances or unusual influences, and he is guaranteed to live up to that contract for the foreseeable future. Thanks again for helping me out with this. Some days you just need clarity.
 
#163
#163
MinisterofDef#92 said:
"He took full advantage" = free market

Also, it was a smart move IMO given stances like yours as CRB knew this was likely a down year (although probably not this down given all that has happened) and he might need the full support of Fulmer.
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It was very smart. He had better footing to negotiate. Imagine Coach Barnes trying to negotiate his contract after going 17-16, or worse.
 
#164
#164
I have no issue with Barnes taking advantage of the market situation and coming out with a nice raise. I think what burned a few fans is after UT wrote the check to keep him here that he makes a PR blunder in stating that he was gone if the buyout situation could have been resolved. I know the guy is an honest guy and all, but if there's ever a good time to lie it was at this point.

Throw a long-suffering fanbase a bone and say you wanted to be here all along, this place is destined for great things, and you want to retire from here.
 
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#168
#168
Lankykong said:
How many tough games did we win before Turner left versus after? I don’t know if you can say it’s not because he’s down. With a sophomore Turner, this team is probably NCAAT ready or at least really close

Also I feel like your rebounding opinion is almost only from A&M. We did pretty well today and vs Kansas. A&M was the only real rebounding stinker. I would argue that rebounding isn’t all effort and positioning or defense would get rebounds all the time. Our defense is too help based to be good at rebounding; our max right now is about average.
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Rebounding absolutely is 98% effort and positioning. I’ll give 2% for the occasional lucky or unlucky bounce but the problem is that pretty much no one in college basketball actually boxes out. They may get between the offensive player and goal but they don’t put their butt on the offensive player and root him out. Your theory isn’t correct about the defense always getting the rebound because the offensive player is also trying to get positioning and makes effort.
 
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#169
#169
SmokeyLives said:
I really do appreciate ALL the comments. CRB is a good coach, but our guys seem to have regressed as the season has gone on. That sentiment is reflected by others in the game thread. Snarky responses were expected. But the loss to A&M was tough to understand, and that road loss to Cincy was putrid basketball. If you don’t think this team is hard to watch, I don’t know what to tell you. Obviously I feel that way. Recruiting is meh, and we’re an NIT team this year. So you all can spew away, I don’t take it personal. Go Vols, be well.
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How do you expect to not take a step back when you lose Turner and JJJ though? Turner was supposed to be the backup PG this year with Bone starting. Bone left early, Turner got hurt, so we turned James and now he is out. Almost no one could weather those losses at PG. look at what is happening to UNC this year too. Bad years can happen to anyone.
 
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#170
#170
Didn't see most of the Kentucky game, but now 13-10, and 5-5 in the SEC. Hitting the 10 loss mark at this point pretty much kills even an at large bid for the NCAA Tournament.
 
#171
#171
hUTch2002 said:
Rebounding absolutely is 98% effort and positioning. I’ll give 2% for the occasional lucky or unlucky bounce but the problem is that pretty much no one in college basketball actually boxes out. They may get between the offensive player and goal but they don’t put their butt on the offensive player and root him out. Your theory isn’t correct about the defense always getting the rebound because the offensive player is also trying to get positioning and makes effort.
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I think taller/bulkier players have a big advantage as well. I would say positioning and effort are very important though, so I probably shouldn’t quibble over a few percentage points.
 
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#172
#172
TNfan#2 said:
Didn't see most of the Kentucky game, but now 13-10, and 5-5 in the SEC. Hitting the 10 loss mark at this point pretty much kills even an at large bid for the NCAA Tournament.
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Getting to 18 total wins gives us a shot. I have always said that we need to get to 10 conference wins. We should have had a win against A&M, but Arkansas and UF are beatable, especially at home.

Our tough OOC schedule gives us a leg up. Look at Arkansas’ schedule. We would have the same number of wins with that schedule. Not all records are created equal.
 
#173
#173
Listen folks Plasvic, Gaines, Pember, Olivier N. are not Sec calibur players. Gaines and Pember are projects at best and should have redshirted. Olivier N. has no game. Plasvic is slow and awkward and can't rebound or block shots. Barnes has really recruited poorly for 2017, 18 and mostly 19. Vescovi and James will be good players the others in their class will either leave or play very little next year.
 
#174
#174
sadiedog51 said:
Listen folks Plasvic, Gaines, Pember, Olivier N. are not Sec calibur players. Gaines and Pember are projects at best and should have redshirted. Olivier N. has no game. Plasvic is slow and awkward and can't rebound or block shots. Barnes has really recruited poorly for 2017, 18 and mostly 19. Vescovi and James will be good players the others in their class will either leave or play very little next year.
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It’s way too early for this. If Gaines and Pember needed a redshirt, then they still have time. Plavsic has literally played in about 6 college games. They may not be all conference players, but they can be solid contributors.
 
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#175
#175
VolGee4 said:
It’s way too early for this. If Gaines and Pember needed a redshirt, then they still have time. Plavsic has literally played in about 6 college games. They may not be all conference players, but they can be solid contributors.
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This. I think Gaines has a ton of potential. He and Pember both could have used a RS, but our numbers didn't allow it. I'm as down on Nkamhoua as anyone, but even I realize that he is young and can improve. These definitive statements after 20 games about players who won't ever amount to anything were made about Admiral Schofield, Yves Pons, John Fulkerson, and Kyle Alexander, too.
 
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