Universal Health Care

#76
#76
While universal health care would be a very large fiscal burden today - how would that compare to the fiscal burden, in say 15-20 years, of Medicare and Medicaid? Now, I know it would only be higher with universal health care....but I bet the marginal burden would be incredibly smaller than we see it today.
 
#77
#77
TennTradition said:
I have a good friend that I go to school with who is Canadian. He is very happy with the quality of health care in Canada (as a matter of fact, he goes there for as much treatment as possible not for cost but for quality). He comes from a family that makes enough money that they could afford good insurance here and good health care - so I look at his case as a good point of comparison. If it weren't for his experiences, I think that I would be much more against it. He really thinks this is a no-brainer move for the US.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree on how Canadians feel. I do quite a bit of work up there and we have had this discussion many times. Most of them feel the extended wait times and actual quality of care are below what we get in the US.

For example, I compared having knee surgery with one of my Canadian counterparts. I was injured, saw my doc, saw the orthopedist, had an MRI and completed surgery before he could get his first visit. It took over 6 months to get all that done in Canada.
 
#78
#78
TENNFOLD1974 said:
Point made.I just try to find good in all people even the lazy ones.
Click to expand...

Finding the good in a lazy person is much different than having to pay for them to be lazy. I have no sympathy for people who choose not to help themselves and expect me to foot the bill.
 
#79
#79
Exactly who is pushing for an equal end point in this country. I am all for near equal starting points, however, the great thing about capitalism is that to the victor go the spoils.
 
#80
#80
Not sure what the right solution is but in general I would favor the system that:

1. Has the lowest total costs
2. Encourages preventive measures (see #1 above)
3. Maintains market-mechanism incentives for R&D and quality of care.
4. Treats people fairly.

We pay the costs of the uninsured one way or the other. If some form of national health insurance can lower total costs while maintaining the role of the market in health care development and delivery then I'd seriously consider it.

To me, the biggest downside is the legendary inefficiency with which government administers this type of thing.
 
#83
#83
therealUT said:
Exactly who is pushing for an equal end point in this country. I am all for near equal starting points, however, the great thing about capitalism is that to the victor go the spoils.
Click to expand...
but what of the defeated? you think it's their fault that they weren't the victor? you need to pray more and steer clear of bums.
 
#84
#84
I've dealt with some homeless people here in Monterey that would blow your mind. My wife and I were walking the bike trial by the bay and run into a group of them all the time. After the first couple of times I thought hey I am going to help these guys out! So I went to the grocery store and bought a crap ton of food. I took it to them and they refused it. They claim they only take money, meanwhile, while talking to them at least three held conversations on their cell phones. I dont even have a cell phone!!

So I warn you to hold your feelings in check when dealing with the homeless. Some are deserving most are just trying to get a free ride through life.
 
#85
#85
MontereyVol said:
I've dealt with some homeless people here in Monterey that would blow your mind. My wife and I were walking the bike trial by the bay and run into a group of them all the time. After the first couple of times I thought hey I am going to help these guys out! So I went to the grocery store and bought a crap ton of food. I took it to them and they refused it. They claim they only take money, meanwhile, while talking to them at least three held conversations on their cell phones. I dont even have a cell phone!!

So I warn you to hold your feelings in check when dealing with the homeless. Some are deserving most are just trying to get a free ride through life.
Click to expand...
sensitivity training for you, my friend.

homeless people have every right to their cell phones.
 
#86
#86
BigPapaVol said:
but what of the defeated? you think it's their fault that they weren't the victor? you need to pray more and steer clear of bums.
Click to expand...
:clapping: BPV it seems you have a very big heart my friend ! I would have to assume that most bums are just looking for a handout and choose to live the way they do , living off handouts and not working for a living , but everyone still deserves our prayers :worship:
 
#87
#87
TIGER DEN said:
:clapping: BPV it seems you have a very big heart my friend ! I would have to assume that most bums are just looking for a handout and choose to live the way they do , living off handouts and not working for a living , but everyone still deserves our prayers :worship:
Click to expand...
you are likely the first VN member to say anything even remotely close to that.

I was being sarcastic. I have little sympathy for the homeless, aside from those with mental problems who aren't really aware of their status.

I am all for praying for them, however.
 
#88
#88
utvolpj said:
I have to disagree on how Canadians feel. I do quite a bit of work up there and we have had this discussion many times. Most of them feel the extended wait times and actual quality of care are below what we get in the US.

For example, I compared having knee surgery with one of my Canadian counterparts. I was injured, saw my doc, saw the orthopedist, had an MRI and completed surgery before he could get his first visit. It took over 6 months to get all that done in Canada.
Click to expand...

completely agree. one of my friends sister was experiencing chest pain in scotland. she went to the emergency room, they gave her some drugs, sent her home, and suggested she see a specialist. she couldnt' get an appointment for 2 months. 2 weeks later she died of a heart attack. apparently it was something could have easily been fixed with an angeoplasty (sp).
 
#89
#89
volinbham said:
Not sure what the right solution is but in general I would favor the system that:

1. Has the lowest total costs
2. Encourages preventive measures (see #1 above)
3. Maintains market-mechanism incentives for R&D and quality of care.
4. Treats people fairly.

We pay the costs of the uninsured one way or the other. If some form of national health insurance can lower total costs while maintaining the role of the market in health care development and delivery then I'd seriously consider it.

To me, the biggest downside is the legendary inefficiency with which government administers this type of thing.
Click to expand...

completely agree. though I have little pity for the uninsured. it's very cheap to get a policy that covers the potential of a major hospital stay. will it pay if you get the flu. no. but it will pay if you get hit by a car or get cancer. half of the uninsured probably are paying more per month for their cable bill than insurance would cost.

here in california those who dont' want to pay for insurance just go to the emergency room and lie about there name.
 
#90
#90
BigPapaVol said:
you are likely the first VN member to say anything even remotely close to that.

I was being sarcastic. I have little sympathy for the homeless, aside from those with mental problems who aren't really aware of their status.

I am all for praying for them, however.
Click to expand...
My bad , but it's nice to know that people that you have no sympathy for at least you can pray for ! IMO the majority of the homeless probably deal with a disorder of some kind . I am not trying to defend them though , I also think that there are people you meet every day that have some kind of disorder and they are productive citizens ! Just pray for all of them to get and do better
 
#92
#92
MontereyVol said:
Who would they be calling? Their stock brokers?
Click to expand...
easy there trigger, I was being sarcastic. That said, they have the right I suppose. Regardless of who they're calling, at least someone else can call them and find them. Cell phone might actually institute a little accountability for many.

I like the idea. Might be the idea of a therapist, nurse or doc.
 
#93
#93
most bums are just looking for a handout
Click to expand...

Do you hear me Lebowski? The bums will always lose!

image507.jpg
Click to expand...
 
#94
#94
I am just so amazed of the amount of people on hear that could care-less about the poor.These are the ones that need the most prayers.:eek:hmy:
 
#95
#95
You jump to conclusions pretty swiftly, TENNFOLD. Simply because I do not want the government handing out money, healthcare, and other various incentives to the poor, in no way means that I do not care for the poor. It simply means that I understand that this is not the role of the government. This role belongs to charities, churches, and other privately run and maintained organizations.
 
#96
#96
utvolpj said:
I have to disagree on how Canadians feel. I do quite a bit of work up there and we have had this discussion many times. Most of them feel the extended wait times and actual quality of care are below what we get in the US.

For example, I compared having knee surgery with one of my Canadian counterparts. I was injured, saw my doc, saw the orthopedist, had an MRI and completed surgery before he could get his first visit. It took over 6 months to get all that done in Canada.
Click to expand...

Well - my experience is limited to this example, so of course, take it for what it is worth. I can say that his trips to the doctor are focused on preventative care and general illnesses - not surgery. He had pneumonia and got really bad care here in general...so he started heading home.
 
#97
#97
TENNFOLD1974 said:
I am just so amazed of the amount of people on hear that could care-less about the poor.These are the ones that need the most prayers.:eek:hmy:
Click to expand...

give me a break. Compare the American "poor" to those of other countries and see how bad they have it. Cable TV and cell phones do not make me think destitute
 
#98
#98
TENNFOLD1974 said:
I am just so amazed of the amount of people on hear that could care-less about the poor.These are the ones that need the most prayers.:eek:hmy:
Click to expand...

I don't feel bad for lazy people and we need welfare reform but I do think we need to do more for people that struggle to make an honest living. I think we should protect the kids too. As for the people that collect welfare checks or disability on false terms, they need to be dealt with.
 
#99
#99
therealUT said:
You jump to conclusions pretty swiftly, TENNFOLD. Simply because I do not want the government handing out money, healthcare, and other various incentives to the poor, in no way means that I do not care for the poor. It simply means that I understand that this is not the role of the government. This role belongs to charities, churches, and other privately run and maintained organizations.
Click to expand...

I would agree and add that many of the unfeeling/uncaring here view the nanny state as a reason for the poor as opposed to a solution. While a safety net is necessary, many govt programs do more to keep people in a poor state than to help them get out of one.

In short, it is not a lack of concern - it is a different philosophy on the solution.
 
#100
#100
therealUT said:
You jump to conclusions pretty swiftly, TENNFOLD. Simply because I do not want the government handing out money, healthcare, and other various incentives to the poor, in no way means that I do not care for the poor. It simply means that I understand that this is not the role of the government. This role belongs to charities, churches, and other privately run and maintained organizations.
Click to expand...

I can see where you are coming from but what I don't understand is that a lot of people that think the same way about the poor in turn expect the government to ban abortion, same-sex marriage, advocate prayer in school and so on. I guess I don't understand how it's Ok for the government to do some things yet are expected to bud out in others. For the record, I am against abortion and same sex marriage, which are some of the areas I don't agree with Obama on.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top