US To Consider Arming Ukrainian Forces

#52
#52
Grand Vol said:
You haven't had the new foo-foo ones have you?
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No, getting a chicken-aka-king was like being kicked in the nuts. It was the worst, I'd take the dehydrated pork pattie any day over that.
 
#53
#53
hog88 said:
No, getting a chicken-aka-king was like being kicked in the nuts. It was the worst, I'd take the dehydrated pork pattie any day over that.
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I've had some and i've never been in the service. chili con carne,clam chowder and mac &cheese are my favorites.
 
#56
#56
SergeantVol said:
Foreign policy is like a giant chess game. Regional stability is in the best interests of the U.S. and the rest of the world (sana Russia). So is a buffer between NATO countries and Russia. We also have some limited treaties with Ukraine. The fact that Europe does not do anything isnt suprising. When it comes to potential military action, Europe is much like many posters on here. Wait until it gets really, really bad and then try to do something about it. Additionally, inaction sets a precedent that Russia can do whatever they want without consequence. So ask yourselves, after Ukraine who is next? Poland? The Baltic States? Finland? The list goes on. Isolationism has been shown to not work. Proactive diplomacy and dialouge should always come first but the military option should always be on the table especially when your adversary is using their military. JMHO.
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Question: Wasn't there sufficient buffer between Russia and NATO before the US went in last winter and threw Ukraine into chaos? If the US had just stayed out of Ukraine, we wouldn't be where we are at right now.

And outside of just White House created paranoia, there is no evidence or reason to believe that Russia is going to try to militarily steamroll into Europe.

Again, it is amazing to me that the US is the one that has military bases and assets scattered all over the globe but it is Russia that poses the greatest military threat to humanity. Russia came into Syria with a peace agreement to remove whatever chemical weapons Assad had. The US came into Syria by arming the Free Syrian Army and ISIS. Yet, the Russians are the ones characterized as a destabilizing entity. Give me a break.
 
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#57
#57
hog88 said:
No, getting a chicken-aka-king was like being kicked in the nuts. It was the worst, I'd take the dehydrated pork pattie any day over that.
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Omelette with ham. Nothing good ever came out of that except the oatmeal bar. And you'd better have a canteen ready when you ate that thing.
 
#58
#58
n_huffhines said:
Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
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:crazy:

31 Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations; cultivate peace and harmony with all. Religion and Morality enjoin this conduct; and can it be, that good policy does not equally enjoin it? It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and, at no distant period, a great Nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. Who can doubt, that, in the course of time and things, the fruits of such a plan would richly repay any temporary advantages, which might be lost by a steady adherence to it ? Can it be, that Providence has not connected the permanent felicity of a Nation with its Virtue? The experiment, at least, is recommended by every sentiment which ennobles human nature. Alas! is it rendered impossible by its vices ?

32 In the execution of such a plan, nothing is more essential, than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular Nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The Nation, which indulges towards another an habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest. Antipathy in one nation against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable, when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. Hence frequent collisions, obstinate, envenomed, and bloody contests. The Nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy. The Government sometimes participates in the national propensity, and adopts through passion what reason would reject; at other times, it makes the animosity of the nation subservient to projects of hostility instigated by pride, ambition, and other sinister and pernicious motives. The peace often, sometimes perhaps the liberty, of Nations has been the victim.

33 So likewise, a passionate attachment of one Nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite Nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest, in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter, without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite Nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the Nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained; and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens, (who devote themselves to the favorite nation,) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation.

34 As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent Patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practise the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the Public Councils! Such an attachment of a small or weak, towards a great and powerful nation, dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.

35 Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens,) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake; since history and experience prove, that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican Government. But that jealousy, to be useful, must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defence against it. Excessive partiality for one foreign nation, and excessive dislike of another, cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots, who may resist the intrigues of the favorite, are liable to become suspected and odious; while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests.
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#59
#59
Dave1967 said:
If worst came to very worst the US might have to rescue Europe like it did during WW1 and WW2.
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:crazy:

37 Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

38 Our detached and distant situation invites and enables us to pursue a different course. If we remain one people, under an efficient government, the period is not far off, when we may defy material injury from external annoyance; when we may take such an attitude as will cause the neutrality, we may at any time resolve upon, to be scrupulously respected; when belligerent nations, under the impossibility of making acquisitions upon us, will not lightly hazard the giving us provocation; when we may choose peace or war, as our interest, guided by justice, shall counsel.

39 Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor, or caprice?
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#63
#63
Dave1967 said:
The aggression in the Ukraine and trying to help Assad in Syria would be two possible things. I'm a believer in the NWO and this could possibly be on their list of things that they want to happen.
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The US started the coup in Ukraine right in Russia's backyard during the height of the Sochi Olympics!

Putin deserved a Nobel Prize for his work to prevent an overthrow of Assad and war in Syria when he brokered the deal with the chemical weapons.
 
#64
#64
Rasputin_Vol said:
The US started the coup in Ukraine right in Russia's backyard during the height of the Sochi Olympics!

Putin deserved a Nobel Prize for his work to prevent an overthrow of Assad and war in Syria when he brokered the deal with the chemical weapons.
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That's not what the Leaders are probably thinking I bet.:wink::wink:
 
#65
#65
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/arm-ukraine-or-surrender.html

There is no easy way out now. But we must not let thousands of Ukrainians die because we dithered. We must be honest with them if we are not willing to fight a new Cold War with Russia over Ukrainians’ independence. But if we force Ukraine to surrender, rather than sacrifice lives in a fight for which we have no stomach, then we must accept that it is a surrender, too, for NATO, for Europe and liberal democracy, and for American global leadership. That is the choice before us.
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#66
#66
I told you so...

So let me get this straight, Yanokovich went into exile AFTER the US had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmUNCsT8TjU[/youtube]
 
#69
#69
Velo Vol said:
Yes, there was an agreement to hold elections later in 2014.
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The protests lasted something like a month. We must have negotiated new elections very quickly after the protests escalated. I wonder if we had the proposal prepared ahead of time. Hmmm. :question:
 
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#70
#70
red butler said:
The protests lasted something like a month. We must have negotiated new elections very quickly after the protests escalated. I wonder if we had the proposal prepared ahead of time. Hmmm. :question:
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Three months, actually.
 
#71
#71
Velo Vol said:
Three months, actually.
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The protests weren't violent the whole time though. Unless your saying every time a country has peaceful protests, our State Department goes through the planning process for a transition of power. Then I agree, they would have had plenty of time in three months to develop a proposal.
 
#74
#74
Burhead said:
There is no easy way out now. But we must not let thousands of Ukrainians die because we dithered. We must be honest with them if we are not willing to fight a new Cold War with Russia over Ukrainians’ independence. But if we force Ukraine to surrender, rather than sacrifice lives in a fight for which we have no stomach, then we must accept that it is a surrender, too, for NATO, for Europe and liberal democracy, and for American global leadership. That is the choice before us.
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And we are worried about Russia steamrolling through Europe?

The Golden Age of Black Ops*|*Nick Turse

During the fiscal year that ended on September 30, 2014, U.S. Special Operations forces (SOF) deployed to 133 countries -- roughly 70% of the nations on the planet -- according to Lieutenant Colonel Robert Bockholt, a public affairs officer with U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM). This capped a three-year span in which the country’s most elite forces were active in more than 150 different countries around the world, conducting missions ranging from kill/capture night raids to training exercises. And this year could be a record-breaker. Only a day before the failed raid that ended Luke Somers life -- just 66 days into fiscal 2015 -- America’s most elite troops had already set foot in 105 nations, approximately 80% of 2014’s total.
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