USC looking at Franklin to take head coach job

#151
#151
Yankee_Vol said:
He's won 4 and 5 conference games the last 2 years.

And every team has a cupcake or 2
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He's also had the benefit of one of the easiest SEC schedules the last 2 years. Avoiding both LSU and Bama both years. Got Auburn last year when they were trash and missed them this year when they went 11-1. Of course, they rolled onto UT's schedule naturally this year and not last year.

This year's schedule? It ranks dead last in the SEC at #52. Bravo. UT was 4th in the SEC with the #11 toughest.

USA Today | Sports | NCAAF

And he has had more than 2 cupcakes out of conference. He's had 4 for each of the last 2 years.
 
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#152
#152
OrangeBalls said:
He's also had the benefit of one of the easiest SEC schedules the last 2 years. Avoiding both LSU and Bama both years. Got Auburn last year when they were trash and missed them this year when they went 11-1. Of course, they rolled onto UT's schedule naturally this year and not last year.

This year's schedule? It ranks dead last in the SEC at #52. Bravo. UT was 4th in the SEC with the #11 toughest.

USA Today | Sports | NCAAF

And he has had more than 2 cupcakes out of conference. He's had 4 for each of the last 2 years.
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Sagarin's strength of schedule ratings are total crap! Anyone who says that Utah, Arizona State, Washington State, Stanford, UCLA all had more difficult schedules than Tennessee is out of their mind. They play in the PAc-10 for goodness sakes! Also, how in the world did Georgia, Mississippi State and Ole Miss have a more difficult schedule than UT? Someone please explain!
 
#153
#153
hikermanvol said:
Sagarin's strength of schedule ratings are total crap! Anyone who says that Utah, Arizona State, Washington State, Stanford, UCLA all had more difficult schedules than Tennessee is out of their mind. They play in the PAc-10 for goodness sakes! Also, how in the world did Georgia, Mississippi State and Ole Miss have a more difficult schedule than UT? Someone please explain!
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Check their schedules. UGA played a number of tough teams. They also played the tougher West opponents (Auburn-LSU). They played Clemson and Ga Tech. Ole Miss played at Texas. And won. Miss St played at Ok St and lost. All of them including UT played tough out of conference opponents instead of 4 cupcakes like Vandy.
 
#154
#154
OrangeBalls said:
He's also had the benefit of one of the easiest SEC schedules the last 2 years. Avoiding both LSU and Bama both years. Got Auburn last year when they were trash and missed them this year when they went 11-1. Of course, they rolled onto UT's schedule naturally this year and not last year.

This year's schedule? It ranks dead last in the SEC at #52. Bravo. UT was 4th in the SEC with the #11 toughest.

USA Today | Sports | NCAAF

And he has had more than 2 cupcakes out of conference. He's had 4 for each of the last 2 years.
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I wouldn't call Northwestern from last year a cupcake...at Northwestern.

And we're still talking about Vanderbilt! Not Bama, UT, LSU, UF, UGA....VANDY!

If Franklin were coaching one of those other schools would it be impressive, no.

Similar to what Bruce Pearl did for UT hoops. UT fans love the NCAA run in 2010. Well, that may be a big deal to UT, but for UF or UK it's common.

Everything is relative.
 
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#155
#155
Boca Vol said:
I wouldn't call Northwestern from last year a cupcake...at Northwestern.

And we're still talking about Vanderbilt! Not Bama, UT, LSU, UF, UGA....VANDY!

If Franklin were coaching one of those other schools would it be impressive, no.

Similar to what Bruce Pearl did for UT hoops. UT fans love the NCAA run in 2010. Well, that may be a big deal to UT, but for UF or UK it's common.

Everything is relative.
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Ok, one out of eight wasn't a cupcake. Of course, they promptly lost their only decent out of conference game. Next year there are 4 embarrassing games. That's 11 out of the last 12.

I don't compare Frank to Pearl at all. Pearl won the SEC East three times and the SEC title outright. He got a #2 seed in the NCAA tourney in his first year. He went to three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8. Frank hasn't come anywhere close to doing what Pearl did. He hasn't come close to sniffing any kind of division/conference or national championship. And he never will.
 
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#156
#156
OrangeBalls said:
Ok, one out of eight wasn't a cupcake. Of course, they promptly lost their only decent out of conference game. Next year there are 4 embarrassing games. That's 11 out of the last 12.

I don't compare Frank to Pearl at all. Pearl won the SEC East three times and the SEC title outright. He got a #2 seed in the NCAA tourney in his first year. He went to three Sweet 16's and an Elite 8. Frank hasn't come anywhere close to doing what Pearl did. He hasn't come close to sniffing any kind of division/conference or national championship. And he never will.
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Notice I used the word "relative."

Pearl took UT basketball to "relative" heights for UT. For UF or UK , UT's accomplishments weren't anything special.

That was the comparison I was trying to make.

As far as the OOC games for Vandy, so? Again, it's Vandy.
 
#157
#157
Boca Vol said:
Notice I used the word "relative."

Pearl took UT basketball to "relative" heights for UT. For UF or UK , UT's accomplishments weren't anything special.

That was the comparison I was trying to make.

As far as the OOC games for Vandy, so? Again, it's Vandy.
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Don't you know that Vanderbilt should be held to the same standards as UGA, UF, Bama, UT, etc? The history of the sport totally reinforces those comparisons.
 
#158
#158
bamawriter said:
Don't you know that Vanderbilt should be held to the same standards as UGA, UF, Bama, UT, etc? The history of the sport totally reinforces those comparisons.
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Have you noticed the same people that downplay Franklin's "success" are the same ones that want him gone so Vandy will return to the bottom of the SEC?
 
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#159
#159
Boca Vol said:
Have you noticed the same people that downplay Franklin's "success" are the same ones that want him gone so Vandy will return to the bottom of the SEC?
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Intersting. The guy will most likely move on to another program and be pretty successful. Jerk of a person, but a darn good coach.
 
#160
#160
bamawriter said:
Don't you know that Vanderbilt should be held to the same standards as UGA, UF, Bama, UT, etc? The history of the sport totally reinforces those comparisons.
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Boca Vol said:
Have you noticed the same people that downplay Franklin's "success" are the same ones that want him gone so Vandy will return to the bottom of the SEC?
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No, I'm just not as easily impressed and going to get the kneepads out on a guy whose best wins are against two 7-6 teams (one which Dooley even curb stomped) and an 8-4 UGA team who was crippled. Sorry, if you're easily impressed. I'm not.

And I could give two sh*ts if he stays or goes. I honestly hope he stays because when UT gets their roster back to where it used to be then it's going to be fun watching the excuses when UT beats the hell out of them.
 
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#163
#163
Boca Vol said:
Have you noticed the same people that downplay Franklin's "success" are the same ones that want him gone so Vandy will return to the bottom of the SEC?
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I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely don't want him gone. UT won't be down for much longer. Franklin hasn't proven he can beat teams consistently that have winning records. Franklin or no Franklin, they will be UT's doormat again very soon. I'd prefer to see it happen with him at the helm.

Those that think he needs to leave for Vandy to return to the bottom of the SEC are missing a very important point. Vandy did not rise up in the SECE, the SECE sank. It won't remain that way.

:hi:
 
#164
#164
Orange_Crush said:
I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely don't want him gone. UT won't be down for much longer. Franklin hasn't proven he can beat teams consistently that have winning records. Franklin or no Franklin, they will be UT's doormat again very soon. I'd prefer to see it happen with him at the helm.

Those that think he needs to leave for Vandy to return to the bottom of the SEC are missing a very important point. Vandy did not rise up in the SECE, the SECE sank. It won't remain that way.

:hi:
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UGA, South Carolina and LSU were all garbage when UF and UT ran the conference two decades ago. Hell, Bama shared the West with Auburn, Arkansas and Mississippi State back then, so they weren't nearly as dominant either back then.

It took LSU a decade to make the SEC title game.

Missouri is a national title contender, arguably not as strong as our teams in the 90s, but it's not as though the SEC only has one marquee program to hang its hat on these days. Headed into Championship Saturday the SEC has three teams with an outside shot at playing for the national title. And while I don't like playing the what if game, I like AU, Mizzou and Bama's chances against Ohio State.

At the end of the day, Vandy sucking has been a given long term, regardless of who's up and who's down.
 
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#165
#165
The funny thing though is watching the Vandy fans that are up in arms that they may be passed over by Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St in the bowl selection pecking order. They've never been to many bowls so they are getting a Bowl Selection 101 education in that the bowls don't give a chit about your record or who deserves it more. It's who can make them the most money and Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St will all bring more people.
 
#166
#166
Lawrence Wright said:
UGA, South Carolina and LSU were all garbage when UF and UT ran the conference two decades ago. Hell, Bama shared the West with Auburn, Arkansas and Mississippi State back then, so they weren't nearly as dominant either back.

Missouri is a national title contender, arguably not as strong as our teams in the 90s, but it's not as though the SEC only has one marquee program to hang its hat on these days. Headed into Championship Saturday the SEC has three teams with an outside shot at playing for the national title. And while I don't like playing the what if game, I like AU, Mizzou and Bama's chances against Ohio State.

At the end of the day, Vandy sucking has been a given long term, regardless of who's up and who's down.
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USCjr was garbage, UGA was average and LSU was down. You knew UGA and LSU would eventually get it right. Not many people knew if USCjr ever would because they were an average program at best. It took them awhile to figure it out. You also knew that Bama wasn't going to be down forever. It took longer than probably even they thought it would to get back, but the traditional programs usually always make it back.

What will be interesting to see is what happens when Spurrier retires. USCjr might fall back to their old ways. Richt is going to retire soon. If they find the right guy, UGA could dominate. Richt is good enough to keep his job, but hasn't been quite lucky and good enough to win it all.
 
#167
#167
Lawrence Wright said:
UGA, South Carolina and LSU were all garbage when UF and UT ran the conference two decades ago. Hell, Bama shared the West with Auburn, Arkansas and Mississippi State back then, so they weren't nearly as dominant either back.

Missouri is a national title contender, arguably not as strong as our teams in the 90s, but it's not as though the SEC only has one marquee program to hang its hat on these days. Headed into Championship Saturday the SEC has three teams with an outside shot at playing for the national title. And while I don't like playing the what if game, I like AU, Mizzou and Bama's chances against Ohio State.

At the end of the day, Vandy sucking has been a given long term, regardless of who's up and who's down.
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In the other active thread on Franklin, bamawriter posted the combined winning percentages of teams that Vandy has won against and lost against since the early nineties. Here they are: (Kudos to bamawriter to the homework, and I see you've acknowledged them and also that we're pretty much on the same page with Coach Franklin. :hi:)

Franklin:
2011 -
5 wins, avg. MOV 22.6 pts, opponents' win pct .344
7 losses, avg. MOL 11.1 pts, opponents' win pct .733

2012-
8 wins, avg. MOV 20.3 pts, opponents' win pct .357
4 losses, avg. MOL 18.25 pts, opponent' win pct .830

2013 (pre-bowl)-
7 wins, avg. MOV 12.6 pts, opponents' win pct .306
4 losses, avg. MOL 17.3 pts, opponents' win pct .750


Johnson:
2008-
7 wins, avg. MOV 8.6 pts, opponents' win pct .544
6 losses, avg. MOL 11.2 pts, opponents' win pct .579

2007-
4 wins, avg. MOV 14.8 pts, opponents' win pct .388
7 losses, avg. MOL 13.4 pts, opponent's win pct .685

2005-
4 wins, avg. MOV 5.0 pts, opponents' win pct .364
6 losses, avg. MOL 11.0 pts, opponents' win pct .611


DiNardo:
1991-
5 wins, avg. MOV 9.8 pts, opponents' win pct .393
6 losses, avg. MOL 18.5 pts, opponents' win pct .647

1994
4 wins, avg. MOV 15.5 pts, opponents' win pct .286
6 losses, avg. MOL 22.8 pts, opponents' win pct .634

1992
4 wins, avg. MOV 15.0 pts, opponents' win pct .356
7 losses, avg. MOL 16.1 pts, opponents' win pct .707
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What we see is that, most especially considering recent history, Franklin has won more often against worse teams, and less often against better teams.

I know I'm restating from the other thread, but it has bearing on my point. Franklin hasn't proven much more than Johnson did. He wins more often because of a weaker schedule. He has not proven that can consistently beat good teams. Maybe he starts. If he does, I may want him gone. I've been given little or no reason to believe that Franklin will start beating good teams, because he really hasn't beaten any or many good teams.

UT will not always be down. Nor will UF. UGA will not be decimated that way again for a while. Nothing tells me that, once those three teams are up, they will care who they are beating, and Franklin will be one of those that is getting beaten.

I absolutely agree with you from the other thread. Franklin better get out of Vandy soon, because these Franklin threads will end very soon once the SEC returns to normal.
 
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#168
#168
Orange_Crush said:
In the other active thread on Franklin, bamawriter posted the combined winning percentages of teams that Vandy has won against and lost against since the early nineties. Here they are: (Kudos to bamawriter to the homework, and I see you've acknowledged them and also that we're pretty much on the same page with Coach Franklin. :hi:)



What we see is that, most especially considering recent history, Franklin has won more often against worse teams, and less often against better teams.

I know I'm restating from the other thread, but it has bearing on my point. Franklin hasn't proven much more than Johnson did. He wins more often because of a weaker schedule. He has not proven that can consistently beat good teams. Maybe he starts. If he does, I may want him gone. I've been given little or no reason to believe that Franklin will start beating good teams, because he really hasn't beaten any or many good teams.

UT will not always be down. Nor will UF. UGA will not be decimated that way again for a while. Nothing tells me that, once those three teams are up, they will care who they are beating, and Franklin will be one of those that is getting beaten.

I absolutely agree with you from the other thread. Franklin better get out of Vandy soon, because these Franklin threads will end very soon once the SEC returns to normal.
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What is interesting is that in Johnson's best year, 2008, his offense was pretty bad for the most part. UT's woeful 2008 team even beat them because UT had a good defense. Vandy had trouble scoring and UT got most of their points off turnovers. That game was wretched to watch. It looked like two kids in a pillow fight. Two of the most inept offensive football teams I've ever seen.
 
#169
#169
OrangeBalls said:
The funny thing though is watching the Vandy fans that are up in arms that they may be passed over by Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St in the bowl selection pecking order. They've never been to many bowls so they are getting a Bowl Selection 101 education in that the bowls don't give a chit about your record or who deserves it more. It's who can make them the most money and Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St will all bring more people.
Click to expand...

You can't fault some Vandy fans for not knowing how the bowl system works.
 
#170
#170
OrangeBalls said:
The funny thing though is watching the Vandy fans that are up in arms that they may be passed over by Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St in the bowl selection pecking order. They've never been to many bowls so they are getting a Bowl Selection 101 education in that the bowls don't give a chit about your record or who deserves it more. It's who can make them the most money and Ole Miss, UGA and Miss St will all bring more people.
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Lawrence Wright said:
You can't fault some Vandy fans for not knowing how the bowl system works.
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The bowl selection committe knows one thing: Vandy fans don't even tavel to their home stadium.

Nuff said.
 
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#173
#173
Crush,

Something I should have pointed out before in my breakdown is that Franklin has only lost one game to a team that finished with a losing record: 2011 @ 5-7 Tennessee, in OT.

Even in his best year, Johnson lost to 4-8 Miss St and 4-8 Duke. He lost to 4-7 MTSU and 3-8 UK in 2005. Dinardo lost by 36 points to the '94 Arkansas team that finished 4-7.

Point being, Franklin isn't losing to bad teams. He may not be beating great teams, but he has no ugly losses on his resume. Every Vandy coach before him did.
 
#174
#174
bamawriter said:
Crush,

Something I should have pointed out before in my breakdown is that Franklin has only lost one game to a team that finished with a losing record: 2011 @ 5-7 Tennessee, in OT.

Even in his best year, Johnson lost to 4-8 Miss St and 4-8 Duke. He lost to 4-7 MTSU and 3-8 UK in 2005. Dinardo lost by 36 points to the '94 Arkansas team that finished 4-7.

Point being, Franklin isn't losing to bad teams. He may not be beating great teams, but he has no ugly losses on his resume. Every Vandy coach before him did.
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I got ya bw. And I agree. My analysis of the stats in the other thread said much the same.

My opinion is that he's not a bad coach. He's probably an upgrade at Vandy. However, he's not proven he's ready for the keys of a major program. I don't expect a major program to take the chance on him at this time. He needs to jump ship pretty soon because I believe an improved SECE will sink his stock going forward.

Feel free to disagree.

:good!:
 
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