USS destroyer sailing by chinese disputed islands

[37L1]

And they remained far away from us before, during and after the war. Germany never posed a serious threat to the US mainland. Facts.

Neither did Japan?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Just like we did Britain?

We disappear from the area, that would embolden China, and you know it. That would create problems for the entire region and ultimately, the rest of us.

Expanding and maintaining an empire is expensive. The United States is seeing that first hand.

 

[37L1]

Expanding and maintaining an empire is expensive. The United States is seeing that first hand.

What empire would that be?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Neither did Japan?

We didn't mind our business in Asia and instead got involved in an oil embargo directed at Japan. Had we minded our business, there would not have been a need for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor.

But of course, that begs the question of why was the Pacific Fleet even in Pearl Harbor to begin with, but we can save that for another debate. But had the Pacific Fleet been in San Diego instead, then the Japanese wouldn't have been able to do squat even if we did still engage in an oil embargo.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What empire would that be?

The United States empire with over 800 bases all over the globe. We basically replaced Britain as the superior naval power and controller of shipping lanes and in the process expanded into creating debt traps and regime change to control other countries energy and resources.

 

[37L1]

We didn't mind our business in Asia and instead got involved in an oil embargo directed at Japan. Had we minded our business, there would not have been a need for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor.

But of course, that begs the question of why was the Pacific Fleet even in Pearl Harbor to begin with, but we can save that for another debate. But had the Pacific Fleet been in San Diego instead, then the Japanese wouldn't have been able to do squat even if we did still engage in an oil embargo.

Why not in Norfolk? Then they'd be really safe from those Japanese planes.

Why build the ships at all? No ships, no attack, right, Ras? Why have a military? No military, no dead soldiers, right?

How far you gonna go?

 

[37L1]

The United States empire with over 800 bases all over the globe. We basically replaced Britain as the superior naval power and controller of shipping lanes and in the process expanded into creating debt traps and regime change to control other countries energy and resources.

We go away and everything will be

 

[Redleg68]

We didn't mind our business in Asia and instead got involved in an oil embargo directed at Japan. Had we minded our business, there would not have been a need for Japan to attack Pearl Harbor.

But of course, that begs the question of why was the Pacific Fleet even in Pearl Harbor to begin with, but we can save that for another debate. But had the Pacific Fleet been in San Diego instead, then the Japanese wouldn't have been able to do squat even if we did still engage in an oil embargo.

Yep, the last time we played the role of isolationism it did not work out very well. The Japanese were not going to stop. Australia was on their radar. The fleet was at Pearl Harbor because that is where they belonged. If we did not have a presence at Pearl Harbor (which was a U.S. territory at the time), Japan would have easily taken Hawaii and we would have wound up with a 3,000 mile supply line to try and take Hawaii back. The Japanese screwed up when they did not hit the fuel farms. Them we would have had to pull back.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Why not in Norfolk? Then they'd be really safe from those Japanese planes.

Why build the ships at all? No ships, no attack, right, Ras? Why have a military? No military, no dead soldiers, right?

How far you gonna go?

Why would the Pacific Fleet be stationed in Norfolk? You sound silly now.

 

[37L1]

Why would the Pacific Fleet be stationed in Norfolk? You sound silly now.

I sound silly?

Why have a Pacific Fleet in the first place?

Isn't that just asking for trouble? Isn't that just a threat to impose our empire? I mean, what kind of reaction do you think China would have if we had a Pacific Fleet? Isn't that a threat to them?

Oh, wait.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We go away and everything will be

We can't continue to be the world police. The fire that you are showing in that cartoon is our country today, not necessarily the world around us. We need to use our resources and energy fixing America first. Let the Japanese, Aussies, South Koreans and Western Europeans handle their own issues for a change.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I sound silly?

Why have a Pacific Fleet in the first place?

Isn't that just asking for trouble? Isn't that just a threat to impose our empire? I mean, what kind of reaction do you think China would have if we had a Pacific Fleet? Isn't that a threat to them?

Oh, wait.

To protect against foreign attacks.... and control/maintain shipping lanes in the Pacific.

 

[37L1]

We can't continue to be the world police. The fire that you are showing in that cartoon is our country today, not necessarily the world around us. We need to use our resources and energy fixing America first. Let the Japanese, Aussies, South Koreans and Western Europeans handle their own issues for a change.

They certainly are a match for China in Asia and Russia in Europe all by themselves aren't they?

Wait, didn't we do this before? How'd that go?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 

[37L1]

To protect against foreign attacks.... and control/maintain shipping lanes in the Pacific.

Correct.

That is why we have routinely sailed where we have sailed including the topic of this thread
USS destroyer sailing by chinese disputed islands

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I sound silly?

Why have a Pacific Fleet in the first place?

Isn't that just asking for trouble? Isn't that just a threat to impose our empire? I mean, what kind of reaction do you think China would have if we had a Pacific Fleet? Isn't that a threat to them?

Oh, wait.

If the US line of interest was just restricted to the Eastern shores of Japan and the Philippines, you might have a legit argument. But once we cross over and put our nose into the affairs of the South China Sea, now that is a totally different ballgame. Now we are being provocative. And that is basically what that article I posted was suggesting. You know the Chinese have a heavy presence in this region. All this is going to do is raise the likelihood of an unprovoked or accidental engagement between the two sides.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

They certainly are a match for China in Asia and Russia in Europe all by themselves aren't they?

Wait, didn't we do this before? How'd that go?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Yep, we are the British Empire right now. Great historical reference.

 

[37L1]

If the US line of interest was just restricted to the Eastern shores of Japan and the Philippines, you might have a legit argument. But once we cross over and put our nose into the affairs of the South China Sea, now that is a totally different ballgame. Now we are being provocative. And that is basically what that article I posted was suggesting. You know the Chinese have a heavy presence in this region. All this is going to do is raise the likelihood of an unprovoked or accidental engagement between the two sides.

There are absolutely no critical shipping lanes in the South China Sea, Ras?

The Chinese have created this situation just as sure as they created the islands and laid claim to territory that is not theirs.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Correct.

That is why we have routinely sailed where we have sailed including the topic of this thread
USS destroyer sailing by chinese disputed islands

Just thought I would highlight the key phrase.

We are being provoctive. These islands and these waterways are well within China's sphere of influence, yet half a world a way from the US.

 

[37L1]

Yep, we are the British Empire right now. Great historical reference.

Not near the same and you know it. You deliberately miss the connotation about isolationism and repeating it with the same inevitable results.

 

[37L1]

Just thought I would highlight the key phrase.

We are being provoctive. These islands and these waterways are well within China's sphere of influence, yet half a world a way from the US.

Doesn't matter. They created the situation, much like the Sudetenland. How'd that turn out?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There are absolutely no critical shipping lanes in the South China Sea, Ras?

The Chinese have created this situation just as sure as they created the islands and laid claim to territory that is not theirs.

Yes, there are indeed critical shipping lanes in the South China Sea. One of those is the busiest pinch point on the globe, the Straights of Malacca. China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, India, and the Gulf states all have a vested interest in keeping these shipping lanes open and free flowing. Let those countries sort it out. They have the resources and should be willing to throw their own skin in the game to keep these lanes open.

 

[VolStrom]

Yes, there are indeed critical shipping lanes in the South China Sea. One of those is the busiest pinch point on the globe, the Straights of Malacca. China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, India, and the Gulf states all have a vested interest in keeping these shipping lanes open and free flowing. Let those countries sort it out. They have the resources and should be willing to throw their own skin in the game to keep these lanes open.

But all of our cheap crap like tennis shoes and blenders come through there, we can't be made to make those things again in the US.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Not near the same and you know it. You deliberately miss the connotation about isolationism and repeating it with the same inevitable results.

No, you miss the point. There is a balance. Full blown isolation (which is what I am not advocating) is harmful just as much as being a busybody world police. The United States right now is essentially the global military version of a Karen. Isolationism and Karen-ism are two extremes that are undesirable.

 

[37L1]

Yes, there are indeed critical shipping lanes in the South China Sea. One of those is the busiest pinch point on the globe, the Straights of Malacca. China, Japan, South Korea, Australia, India, and the Gulf states all have a vested interest in keeping these shipping lanes open and free flowing. Let those countries sort it out. They have the resources and should be willing to throw their own skin in the game to keep these lanes open.

Yep, they can take on China all by themselves. . .

We have no interests here.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

But all of our cheap crap like tennis shoes and blenders come through there, we can't be made to make those things again in the US.

Take that up with you national leaders. If we focused on our own matters here and were more self-reliant, we wouldn't need to concern ourselves as much with these long as supply chains.