USS destroyer sailing by chinese disputed islands

#451
#451
Tnslim1 said:
I wish Trump had put all of China's boomers on the ocean floor then turned China into a giant smoking crater. They initiated war on this country when they built and then turned loose the Covid killing several hundred thousand of our citizens and millions worldwide. The problem of China would then be solved.
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Crazy talk.
 
#452
#452
Tnslim1 said:
I wish Trump had put all of China's boomers on the ocean floor then turned China into a giant smoking crater. They initiated war on this country when they built and then turned loose the Covid killing several hundred thousand of our citizens and millions worldwide. The problem of China would then be solved.
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Thanks for weighing in Slim.

whoinvitedthelunatic.jpg
 
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#453
#453
Rasputin_Vol said:
So basically, you're sating that the Chinese are acting like the United States?
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Not in this case and not in the last 125 or so years, no. I don't recall us claiming a huge area of sea and islands, contrary to international law, and then displacing the lawful claimants. There may be some parallel with our westward expansion but not much IMHO. Our empire was acquired by other means.
 
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#454
#454
Rasputin_Vol said:
I didn't ignore them because they were not worth going back over the obvious. It is pretty clear what they are doing in the South China Sea.
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They're illegally creating artificial islands in an attempt to expand their territorial waters into what is and has been international waters.
 
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#455
#455
Weezer said:
They're illegally creating artificial islands in an attempt to expand their territorial waters into what is and has been international waters.
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If the islands already belonged to China in the first place, how is it illegal? They are simple building on top of existing atolls.
 
#456
#456
Rasputin_Vol said:
If the islands already belonged to China in the first place, how is it illegal? They are simple building on top of existing atolls.
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They weren't actually islands in many cases. They built them up so they could lay claim to them in an attempt to expand their waters. Other nations are not obligated to recognize their claim, and treaties already exist marking territorial waters. What's funny is if we did the exact same thing, you'd probably be one of the first to condemn it. I really don't understand your fascination with countries like China and Russia.
 
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#458
#458
Weezer said:
They weren't actually islands in many cases. They built them up so they could lay claim to them in an attempt to expand their waters. Other nations are not obligated to recognize their claim, and treaties already exist marking territorial waters. What's funny is if we did the exact same thing, you'd probably be one of the first to condemn it. I really don't understand your fascination with countries like China and Russia.
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I probably would depending on the circumstances. If it was in the Far East or in Africa or in Europe? Definitely. If it was within our hemisphere, it would depend on the motives behind doing it.
 
#459
#459
Rasputin_Vol said:
I probably would depending on the circumstances. If it was in the Far East or in Africa or in Europe? Definitely. If it was within our hemisphere, it would depend on the motives behind doing it.
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So China's militaristic motives equal okay, but the United States, if they did it for militaristic motives, equals not okay. Sometimes I think you want China and Russia to conquer the world.
 
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#460
#460
Weezer said:
I really don't understand your fascination with countries like China and Russia.
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China is very problematic because they seem to have a certain amount of leverage with our private sector and political leadership. I consider them far more dangerous than Russia. However, even after saying that, we don't need to go provoking them or inserting ourselves in regional conflicts that they get involved in.
 
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#461
#461
Weezer said:
So China's militaristic motives equal okay, but the United States, if they did it for militaristic motives, equals not okay. Sometimes I think you want China and Russia to conquer the world.
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It is perfectly fine since those atolls or sand bars or whatever they are belonged to China in the first place. Plus, that is a regional issue. No matter if you think it is right or wrong for China to do, that is not our issue.
 
#462
#462
Weezer said:
Sometimes I think you want China and Russia to conquer the world.
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I want the United States to be the best it can be and not be influenced by a lot of these people that are in power right now. Those are the enemies from within that we need to concern ourselves with in the immediate future. All of this other nonsense in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and the South China Sea are distractions.

Your attention and fears are on the wrong things.
 
#463
#463
Rasputin_Vol said:
It is perfectly fine since those atolls or sand bars or whatever they are belonged to China in the first place. Plus, that is a regional issue. No matter if you think it is right or wrong for China to do, that is not our issue.
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It is our issue if it effects international trade routes and thus our commerce.
 
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#464
#464
Rasputin_Vol said:
I want the United States to be the best it can be and not be influenced by a lot of these people that are in power right now. Those are the enemies from within that we need to concern ourselves with in the immediate future. All of this other nonsense in Eastern Europe, Central Asia and the South China Sea are distractions.

Your attention and fears are on the wrong things.
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I have enough attention and fears to focus on problems both foreign and domestic.
 
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#465
#465
Weezer said:
It is our issue if it effects international trade routes and thus our commerce.
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And like I have been saying throughout. China is either first or second in the world with the United States in terms of both imports and exports. They have just as much of an incentive to keep those shipping lanes open as anyone else, especially with their ambitions tied to the Belt and Road Initiative.

The real reason that the United States is concerned is because we want to have access so we can control those lanes and control what comes in and out if the time comes to starve China out in the same way we did Japan.

So it had nothing to do with wanting free shipping lanes. It has to do with the US being unable to control those shipping lanes. Let's not pretend these are altruistic motives we have over there.
 
#466
#466
Weezer said:
I have enough attention and fears to focus on problems both foreign and domestic.
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As long as we keep out of unnecessary foreign conflicts, you won't have that to worry about.

We've had fellow Americans terrorizing us, threatening our livelihoods and taking away our freedoms over here in the last 2 years... not Russians or Chinese. Know who your true enemies are.
 
#467
#467
Rasputin_Vol said:
And like I have been saying throughout. China is either first or second in the world with the United States in terms of both imports and exports. They have just as much of an incentive to keep those shipping lanes open as anyone else, especially with their ambitions tied to the Belt and Road Initiative.

The real reason that the United States is concerned is because we want to have access so we can control those lanes and control what comes in and out if the time comes to starve China out in the same way we did Japan.

So it had nothing to do with wanting free shipping lanes. It has to do with the US being unable to control those shipping lanes. Let's not pretend these are altruistic motives we have over there.
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Are we pretending China's motives are altruistic?
 
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#468
#468
Weezer said:
Are we pretending China's motives are altruistic?
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Not necessarily. I think the immediate justification for them (which I think is understandable) is that they want to be able to counter or prevent any moves made by the United States if we decide to block traffic in the region due to sanctions or if we decide to disrupt the shipping lanes because of the Belt and Road Initiative.

Now beyond those immediate needs, then yes, the area could easily also serve as a naval spot to do other things that are not altruistic. But that is not our immediate issue or concern.
 
#471
#471
Rasputin_Vol said:
China is very problematic because they seem to have a certain amount of leverage with our private sector and political leadership. I consider them far more dangerous than Russia. However, even after saying that, we don't need to go provoking them or inserting ourselves in regional conflicts that they get involved in.
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Agree to a degree.

Russia is more dangerous in a way because they are a loose cannon. They seem far more likely to engage in crazy behavior than China who is more meticulous in its approach.

However, China is definitely more engrained into our system and is probably the stronger geo-political threat.

Russia is more likely to start a conflict/war but China is more engrained in our system.

The one positive about the Chinese situation is that China has started to burn a lot of bridges across the globe in the business world and most companies (both US and non-US) are starting to pull away from them. This is probably why China is acting more hostile.
 
#472
#472
volbound1700 said:
Russia is more dangerous in a way because they are a loose cannon. They seem far more likely to engage in crazy behavior than China who is more meticulous in its approach.
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A loose cannon? Russia has shown amazing restraint.

Think of what the American reaction would be if the following happened to us:
1. Shooting down of a commercial airliner by ISIS Metrojet Flight 9268 - Wikipedia
2. Turkey shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border
3. Assassination of a Russian diplomat Assassination of Andrei Karlov - Wikipedia
4. Color revolution in neighboring Ukraine
5. Attempted color revolutions in neighboring Kazakhstan and Georgia
6. Sanctions

I think Russia has shown an extreme amount of restrain compared to how the United States would have reacted to a lot of this.
 
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